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Something to ponder
Here’s a thought to ponder. Why was Amanda able to get 423 Tg people to participate in the TgR survey?
I’ll posit a theory. Was it possibly because she (& possibly some others) did all the thinking & all the work?Here’s another thought. There is a fundamental flaw in our approach to the current round of discussions.
We are trying to determine our message, our motivation & the possible ways we individually & collectively can better our situation in society. In essence this is a marketing campaign.
The flaw is this; we don’t have a visible product. What do you think the outcome will be if society can’t even identify who we are?
There have been numerous media representations of late of Tg children, adolescents & adults, in the form of documentaries & other news stories. The common link in every instance is that an individual or individuals took part & could be seen as a real human beings. There was a product able to be seen. -
10 Replies
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Quote:Why was Amanda able to get 423 Tg people to participate in the TgR survey?Well…being modest I guess it wasn’t because of my personal charisma and leadership qualities…..
😥So, in the absence of a final question that said “Tell us why you persevered right to the end of the survey answering our questions” you just have to guess.
But I suggest it wasn’t because I and a few others did all the hard work as you suggest.There have been other occasions where I have put in a lot of work and achieved very little response.
I think it was WHAT we were doing that attracted people not WHO was doing it.
And WHAT we were doing was opening a door into what was, and still is, a very closed and unknown sub-group in society. I speculate that the reason many others responded to the survey – was the same reason I put a lot of effort into creation of it…
We all want to know more about others who are like us – to help us understand ourselves.
That is my theory – but it has an obvious weakness. If everyone participated because they wanted to validate themselves against the gender diverse population in general – then why didn’t they all rush to read the results when they were published?
So there is a second reason – one that was acknowledged by many in their survey responses.
The very act of answering questions about yourself helps in understanding oneself
Quote:Here’s another thought.Something to ponder – but there are in fact two somethings to ponder!….do I have to address both???
Quote:we don’t have a visible productI acknowledge what a “charmed” introduction to presenting gender diversity to the public Chloe has had. But we mustn’t forget that for a very large number of gender diverse being visible is not a reasonable option. And even if we are visible as people – the one thing that is common – our gender diversity – isn’t exactly visible – not in the same way as two gay guys holding hands and kissing in public is!
Still a lack of anything tangible to market has never held back the marketing departments I have worked with.
Now I’ve answered both topics in the thread… I can finish
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Well whatever people’s reasoning for participation in the survey it is to be applauded. It is a sigh that there is interested however transient it seems.
As to a marketing campaign that has no product well it has to be said a community is not so, it has no physical structure it is an idea , a concept. Ideas and concepts are marketed every day, religion and politics , education and welfare to name but a few.
It is the moral value , the strength and humanity, the suffering most of us have , the distortions of self worth derived from years of struggle with our knowledge of who we are and what we are in most minds ment to be. These are not things but psychological knowledge that truly bind us and weather we like it or not make us a community.
A community is tangible, it is if you like marketable but we are not so selling our community but presenting it to the rest of the nation as a valid and valuable part of our nation.
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Quote:As to a marketing campaign that has no product well it has to be said a community is not so, it has no physical structure it is an idea , a concept. Ideas and concepts are marketed every day, religion and politics , education and welfare to name but a few.
The 4 areas you mention above all promise something better for the ‘customer’. What are you offering?
Quote:A community is tangible, it is if you like marketable but we are not so selling our community but presenting it to the rest of the nation as a valid and valuable part of our nation.Are ‘we’ presenting it?
Quote:I think it was WHAT we were doing that attracted people not WHO was doing it.At no time did I suggest it was about WHO but rather THAT someone DID something.
Quote:I acknowledge what a “charmed” introduction to presenting gender diversity to the public Chloe has had. But we mustn’t forget that for a very large number of gender diverse being visible is not a reasonable option.The are many reasons why I have, as you choose to put it, had a ‘charmed’ introduction & a great many of them would be worth thinking about for others hoping for the same result…another time though. I certainly have not forgotten the circumstances of others & would point out that I certainly have not had a ‘charmed’ life, I just didn’t know to label my difficulties Tg.
I am not disputing the needs of most Tg people & I am not dismissing the benefits of working together but ideas are of little use without participants & action.
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Think you answered your own question when you said the four things I mention offer something better, I personally believe a coherent community offers something better . Better than the isolation that most of us experience, support is often the last thing most of us get. It is true that most partners can not accept transgender partners and as ones family crumbles it is difficult not to become disabled with depression.
It is likely a large part of why the community is so unresponsive and so quite, depression brings feelings of crushing hopelessness and leads on to being unresponsive to things that may at other time stimulate. As to the presentation to the nation that is more of and aspiration than a reality at the moment as the foundation of a community is yet to truly be established I think. This could be just my narrow window on the world of course.
You may not feel your situation is not so charmed but of your making but were you having contact with other transgender people in the real world you would soon realize how it seems charmed. It is not the same for all of course but your experience does sound a lot different to most and I have seen the despair all to often on my Facebook page where I have some 3000 contacts mostly gender diverse. Feel Lucky because I think overall you have been todate.
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Quote:Think you answered your own question
My initial comments were about marketing us to society, your response was in regard to the same.
When I wrote ; ‘What are you offering? I was asking what do Tg people offer to society, after all, we are talking about our voice talking to society. So no I did not answer my own question & it still stands! but I will modify the wording ‘What are ‘we’ offering? Your reply appears that you think it was a personal challenge. I’ll accept fault for that.Quote:depression brings feelings of crushing hopelessness and leads on to being unresponsive to things that may at other time stimulateAs a person who has lived my entire life with depression & at times suicide attempts, I can assure you I need no reminder of the consequences. Five people in my almost immediate family suffer the effects of depression. Beyond that I have background studies in psychology & work history that includes welfare.
Quote:You may not feel your situation is not so charmed but of your making but were you having contact with other transgender people in the real world you would soon realize how it seems charmed.Nowhere in any of my writings do I suggest that my ease of transition is solely of my making, please stop inferring such.
As for my contact with other Tg’s, again you are wrong. Though I have told you (in private contacts) that I do not have a great deal of contact that does not mean that I do not know & do not meet with Tg people. I certainly can think of at least 100 Tg people who I know personally & two in particular that I socialise with. Please stop making assumptions about me & stick with your own circumstances or the topic at hand.Quote:Feel Lucky because I think overall you have been todate.I find your comment both offensive & condescending. You do not know me even remotely well enough to make such a comment.
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Well what I know of you is what what you have written and I have managed to read and it is the impression that you have left. As a suffer of depression you know what I does to a person but it is not always a soluble problem ever the monkey on the back. No personal attack is ever intended with what I write unless it is direct . Anything you build needs a solid foundation or it is doomed to collapse I think I have previously written in these forum what we have to offer society at large but to suggest all we need is to sell a message I think will really not move matters forward, if that is indeed your point.
Without the foundation we can only speculate as to what we might build. We need to build confidence in everyone for them to feel safe an free to express there views. More often than not people of our community have developed the skills to hide from the world to the point that it has become second nature. Who is in a position to say weather it is right or not for their situation.
For example I have revealed myself to my wife and she is utterly supportive of me was it right for me to reveal this and if so right for whom exactly? Any way think I’ve lost my way now so I’ll stop..
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I have to butt in here Kristyana, you say,
Quote:Without the foundation we can only speculate as to what we might build. We need to build confidence in everyone for them to feel safe an free to express there views. More often than not people of our community have developed the skills to hide from the world to the point that it has become second nature. Who is in a position to say weather it is right or not for their situation.I am still suffering from the misconception that what we were offering as a message to society would in fact only help the people coming along after us. The boat has sailed for most of us I’m afraid but what we needed to do was plant the seeds for a more fruitful garden in the future.
We all know that the majority of us hide at home in fear of our family’s and friends and workmates finding out about us, and anything we can accomplish will be too late for us (as a current community). I might add though that hiding in the dark does contribute a lot to depression, dark thoughts fester and grow when there is no stimulus to help them dissipate. So it would be nearly impossible to drag most out into the open enough so that they could form a logical opinion, depression and logic are rarely seen as bedfellows.
I am fortunate I don’t suffer from depression, but my wife does and I have watched that downward spiral many times. Fortunately I have developed tools to stop the circle of behaviour that leads to depressive moods of self destruction, but it is still an awful thing for her to live with. She cannot see the way out without me to hold her hand and guide her.
We are too remote from most of our members so we can’t hold their hands and show them the way. So really were we going to build a house or just a foundation for the future TG community to build their own house on.
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I can see no point in responding to some of the comments above but rather get back to the initial intent of my first post.
I will alter the wording; Is it possible that the process undertaken by those that produced the TgR survey is possibly the reason for it’s success? The fundamental difference between participating in a survey & trying to engage the same number of people in a conversation is that the survey questions have already been determined. It is not a conversation, someone is leading the exercise & the rest are responding. It removes the need for original thought & allows the process to function. This in turn allows for answers to questions which can then be debated or discussed. At that point the original thoughts of others can be offered to a conversation, this way there is actually something concrete to discuss.
I word my posts the way I do to encourage others to think & if they wish, to disagree. It is not helpful to repeat a call for action over & over without actually either asking a question, offering a direction or prompting thought.
I will not re-raise my other question in this thread, I can see now that it would be better asked in a separate post.
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The initial comment in your original post actually berated the participants in the survey by suggesting that they did not think for themselves. As to Pamelas’ post a foundation is what’s needed and from there we can move forward. And I don’t disagree with any of your points.
The fact is it is easier for people to respond to questions than to clarify their thoughts in writing and unprompted but they are still thinking. It is only that someone’s given thoughts as to the questions they feel need an answer. To suggest that the participants did not need to think devalues their contribution and you surely don’t believe that will motivate them to participate further.
We the few that are in discussion will not change things alone.
We as individuals should use opportunities we have when communicating with other gender diverse people encourage the to join us and participate. The conversation that goes in circles goes no where and therefore achieves nothing. -
Quote:The initial comment in your original post actually berated the participants in the survey by suggesting that they did not think for themselves.
I am at a loss to understand why you are so insistent on pursuing your misinterpretation of my words & motivation.
As a point of fact & by default if group A (survey authors) designed the questions, then group A did the thinking. At that point group B (respondents) are not yet in the equation. The process does not negate group B’s ability to think but rather allows an easy platform for them to have their say. That is all the point was.
What I had actually hoped to get to but it’s almost pointless now, was to be, maybe another survey type approach may uncover what the community wishes to do.
My question & offered theory was in order to hopefully elicit a response that could lead to discussion about that possible outcome.
There need not be any motivation to win, this is not a competition. Can we please move on.
Moderator
Quote:I think this thread has degenerated to the point where moving on means locking it. If anyone wants me to unlock it for a specific on-topic reason then please email admin.
