Buying hormones from overseas

[Adrian]

Jasmine,

If you look at the latest TgR survey you will see that over 10% of TgR members have at some time self prescribed hormones. By definition, these hormones must have been shipped into the country through customs.
http://forum.tgr.net.au/cms/forum/FXXXXXXXX/4536-536

I have for some time used inhouse pharmacy to purchase generic drugs as they are usually cheaper than my local chemist sells them.
http://www.inhousepharmacy-europe.com/default.aspx.
They ship from the South Pacific and arrive in Sydney very promptly (~3 days).

As I understand the rules you are allowed to import personal medications in quantities for 3 months use. I have only known a package be opened by customs once – and that was when the customs staff were on work-to-rule or worse. So i suspect the rule is only loosely enforced.

Moderator

Quote:

WARNING
TgR is not a medical forum and any comments you may read in TgR forums are only the opinions of the member posting. You should not assume that a posting on TgR implies any verification or independent review and whilst the advice is honestly offered it is made without knowledge of your particular medical conditions. You should always seek professional medical advice before taking any action that might affect your health.

[Lisa_W]

Hi Jasmine

I will title this post “what is a life worth?”.

In the past I have advised a number of parents looking to buy a pony for their child, who has fallen in love with horses & wants to learn to ride. Of course the parents want the best for the child but not more than $500. How much do you value the life of your child I ask, because as soon as they put their foot in the stirrup the life of the child is dependent on the behaviour of the pony.

The same can be said for drugs. Yes hormones are drugs – very powerful ones at that.

Questions to ask – where are OS drugs made? What are the quality controls? What is the purity of the components? What is the bio-availabilty of the drug? Is it equivalent to similar drugs in Australia?

That is just about about the drugs themselves. What about analysing the risk/benefit profile? Who is going to monitor the side-effects? The dosage to take? The drug levels themselves?

Hormones are not party lollies. They can be very dangerous. I recently heard of a lady who was taking HRT from a “friend” & developed a milky discharge from her breasts – she was unaware that that could indicate a brain tumour.

I ask again – how much is a life worth? In some OS countries – not very much. How much is your life worth? I will let you decide that one.

Please take hormones under medical supervision.

Lisa

[Anonymous]

Thank You for replying Amanda and Lisa , I saw hormones for sale on ‘ Transformations ‘ website and wanted to know if any of our ladies had or were welling to buy hormones from overseas .
Jasmine

[Adrian]

Quote:

I saw hormones for sale on ‘ Transformations ‘ website Jasmine

Under UK law it is, I understand, illegal to advertise prescription medicine.

As TransFormations is based in the UK I think you find anything they sell as hormones is just pink or green coloured creams and from talking to others the major risk will be to your wallet and not your health.

The only coloured creams I bought from them years ago had absolutely no information about their content (and also no effect!) – and so I repeat Lisa’s advice – if you don’t know what is in something and where it was made – then don’t touch it.

[Anonymous]

For those seeking to purchase hormones on line google online pharmacy
& select transgender.
I find paying in british pounds is cheepest & the are very relaible

Salina

[Anonymous]

Please Please don’t go and buy hormones overseas, they are not controlled or tested the the same standard as those here seek help here, very few doctors Ive dealt with would suggest this as a viable option, the risk to health and future well being are to great, i implore all to seek out our doctors here in Australia and ensure they are being looked after as only the Ozzie system can, yes that’s right, we have one of the highest standards around the world, so please think twice before you order some very questionable drugs with no recourse what so ever. I wont go into the details but anyone who thinks its just a harmless activity to change your body via hormones is frankly rather silly and somewhat ignorant of all the possible side effects, not to mention the fact it may well be illegal to import any drug from overseas!

[Adrian]

OK – firstly a disclaimer. This thread isn’t discussing the wisdom or otherwise of self-prescribing HRT – what I am writing is equally valid if you have a prescription from a GP in your hands or not.

To have an informed discussion it is essential I think to separate the two issues. The thread was started with a question just about the practicalities of purchasing medicines from abroad.

Quote:

Please Please don’t go and buy hormones overseas, they are not controlled or tested the the same standard as those here seek help here,

Amy, With all respect this is just scare tactics.

Quote:

not to mention the fact it may well be illegal to import any drug from overseas

And unless we are talking about prohibited drugs like LSD – that fact is a non-fact.

Firstly Australia only manufactures about 1/4 of the drugs it uses… the rest are imported from overseas. The issue is who does the importing and what is imported.

There are two sources of medicine over the Internet – branded and generic drugs. The branded drugs come mostly from Europe, made in places like Switzerland, and are completely identical to anything you might buy here. The pricing can be lower because of lower costs in the retail chain – the same advantage that all on-line retailers have.

Secondly, generic medicine is available for common drugs. Generics are sold under the name of the chemical name. Once again you can buy generics through pharmacies in Australia – they are not fundamentally “unsafe”. Having bought Generics in India – all I can say is that the price mark up between there and your local pharmacy here is nothing short of criminal. But they are cheaper than brand drugs (both here in Australia and on-line) because the companies who make them (for instance in India) do not actually bear the cost of drug research. However the authorities even in “third world” countries like India insist on the generic product having chemical equivalence.

There is absolutely no issue that I can see of quality being of concern. The possible issue is that if you don’t pay the high price for brand drugs then the big drug companies may not have enough money to fund the very expensive drug research process. And if you don’t prop up your local chemist you may find that one day there aren’t so many pharmacists to give free advice. But those are questions of ethics that would need a separate thread to discuss.

Moderator

Quote:

WARNING
TgR is not a medical forum and any comments you may read in TgR forums are only the opinions of the member posting. You should not assume that a posting on TgR implies any verification or independent review and whilst the advice is honestly offered it is made without knowledge of your particular medical conditions. You should always seek professional medical advice before taking any action that might affect your health.

[Anonymous]

I think I should clear the air here , before any shit hits the fan . I was merely asking a question ‘ would you buy hormones from overseas ‘ it was purely a ‘ yes or no answer that I was looking for , I never once said I was going to do it , but I just wanted your feed back , as I said , and all I wanted was a yes or no , but thank you to all that answered me and thank you for your concerns

[Adrian]

Quote:

I think I should clear the air here , before any shit hits the fan . I was merely asking a question ‘ would you buy hormones from overseas ‘ it was purely a ‘ yes or no answer that I was looking for ,

I’m not sure what sort of “shit” there is round here… or where someone stored the fan in these forums. But there should never be the need to have to apologize for starting a serious thread.

However….. far from asking for “yes” or “no” – which would have been rather a lame survey question – you did say

Quote:

Any knowledge or help would be muchly appreciated .

Which I think is what everyone is taking the opportunity to contribute.

[Anonymous]

OK, This one seems to be a bit of a perennial whenever I have seen it.

1. It IS illegal to import prescription medications (they used to be called S4 drugs) from overseas without the appropriate licences or a prescription from a qualified medical practitioner. The TGA controls the use, importation and sale of therapeutic goods within Australia and it’s territories.
2. There CAN be differences in quality and safety of therapeutic goods between different manufacturing companies. Notable differences include sterility of manufacturing particularly with regards to injectables, differences in carrier agents in gels, creams and also oral medications. Medications can have the same active (e.g. 5mg of estradiol) but have a different carrier salt that can dramatically affect absorption, typically decreasing it though in some cases also increasing it.
3. Whilst out and out lack of active is less of an issue it is still a problem. If the medication is cheap as chips from an OS supplier it is likely there is very little quality control testing so if a machine went bung and produced a dodgy batch then goodness knows what dose you are taking.

As all hormones are prescription medicines (for reasonably obvious reasons) thus the above restrictions and cautions apply to all hormonal preparations.

[Adrian]

I’m sure this debate will be reignited soon when doctors and other medical professionals see the findings of the TgR survey.
I know I should be working on publishing it fully, not talking about it, but… the figures are very significant.

If you take the more feminine gender types in the survey (approx 200 responses) – 20% have at some time self administered prescription hormones.

That statistic is a big challenge to be addressed by those establishing medical frameworks and standards of care.
It isn’t something to be just stamped out by legislation as it reflects a real need in the community that is currently being denied through official channels.

It also implies there is a substantial body of knowledge here within TgR about the practicality, desirability, and problems associated with self administering hormones.
And of course the merits of various overseas sources of supply.

As a community, we have to move beyond feeling shame that we have had to take these risks in secret, and instead push for changes to the “rules” so that they embrace our needs.

[Adrian]

Reading through this thread, I realised that I had written something earlier that was potentially misleading. I wrote:

Quote:

Secondly, generic medicine is available for common drugs. Generics are sold under the name of the chemical name. Once again you can buy generics through pharmacies in Australia – they are not fundamentally “unsafe”. Having bought Generics in India – all I can say is that the price mark up between there and your local pharmacy here is nothing short of criminal. But they are cheaper than brand drugs (both here in Australia and on-line) because the companies who make them (for instance in India) do not actually bear the cost of drug research. However the authorities even in “third world” countries like India insist on the generic product having chemical equivalence.

I wrote this from the viewpoint of going to India, walking into a smart pharmacy in Bangalore, and buying Indian generic drugs that way. I do this as regularly as I visit anywhere in SE Asia. Before the moral police attack me – I do it with the full knowledge and support of my GP.

Since my posting I have become aware, by reading articles in the press, that the same story may not be true of generic drugs sold over the internet in on-line pharmacies. I stress I am talking here predominately about drugs made in India, and I am NOT referring to the purchase on-line of drugs made in Europe. It would appear that some generic drugs, that look as if they have been manufactured in India as generics, are in fact contaminated and do not have the required ingredients. They are deliberately manufactured as “fakes”.

I’m sorry if my original post didn’t make this clear at the time.

[Anonymous]

Quote:

I’m sure this debate will be reignited soon when doctors and other medical professionals see the findings of the TgR survey.
I know I should be working on publishing it fully, not talking about it, but… the figures are very significant.

If you take the more feminine gender types in the survey (approx 200 responses) – 20% have at some time self administered prescription hormones.

That statistic is a big challenge to be addressed by those establishing medical frameworks and standards of care.
It isn’t something to be just stamped out by legislation as it reflects a real need in the community that is currently being denied through official channels.

It also implies there is a substantial body of knowledge here within TgR about the practicality, desirability, and problems associated with self administering hormones.
And of course the merits of various overseas sources of supply.

As a community, we have to move beyond feeling shame that we have had to take these risks in secret, and instead push for changes to the “rules” so that they embrace our needs.

Firstly I suspect we may well be arguing the same point from a different angle, so please don’t take offence to what I will say.

Yes you are correct in that the “rules” need adjusting to be more reflective of the needs of those who need to take hormones. Adjustments have been made and guidelines from WPATH and DSM are far less restrictive than they used to be regarding this. That is not to say further refinement is not required.

BUT we must be very careful I think. The fault is not all on the side of the medical profession in regards to this. Some (perhaps many??) have very little knowledge of the effects and side effects both physiological and psychological, that hormonal medications can have. Self prescribers also carry all the usual risk factors of not taking into account interactions with other medications, age, disease and family history factors that can lead to catastrophic side effects.

I think it is possible to make hormones too available. It is my personal opinion and also that of a number of specialist psychiatrists that I know that this is already the case with antidepressent medications.

yes I think there is a challenge for the medical profession and establishing helpful standards of care for prescribing hormones. However I think there is also a need for significant education within the TG community as well on hormones. and HRT. Time and again I have seen posts where the writer seems to view hormones as some sort of magical panacea. Hopefully with information now more readily available on forums such as this one some of this knowledge gap can be breached.

[Anonymous]

Hi,

Before I start lets put the TGR warning info,

Buying stuff from overseas can be tricky but seems a few girls have bought from here

http://www.inhousepharmacy-europe.com/default.aspx.

I was thinking of ordering some Estrofem 1mg and some AA (but not sure which) just a low dose would be what I am looking for.

Feedback would be welcomed, but please make it short or direct to judy_halls@bigpond.com

thanks

WARNING
TgR is not a medical forum and any comments you may read in TgR forums are only the opinions of the member posting. You should not assume that a posting on TgR implies any verification or independent review and whilst the advice is honestly offered it is made without knowledge of your particular medical conditions. You should always seek professional medical advice before taking any action that might affect your health.

[Jennifer_1]

Hi Judy,

I see no problem with purchasing HRT medications from overseas PROVIDED you are getting medical supervision. You have no way of checking whether the dosage is too high or too low, what effect it is having or what damage it is causing.

I self medicated for 18 months before I found the courage to approach a doctor. The oestrogen dose was so low it had virtually no effect and the AA dose was so high it was causing serious damage to my kidneys. My problems were; not knowing the full effects of the various medications even though I thought I had researched to topic thoroughly, fear of talking about “my problem” with Doctors and not being able to monitor the effects on my body, (blood tests, etc..)

Once I overcame my fear of letting somebody know about my “secret” and obtained medical help things went well. If you are transitioning you need medical advice and support.

I wish you well

Jenn