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Community, GLBTIQ, Identity etc etc
Sorry Amanda/Adrian if this should have been somewhere else
I have been reading the forums on Growing old Gracefully, Community, The Survey and some about what we want people to know about us, and more I can’t remember.
I read with interest the forum on splitting from the umbrella of the GLBTIQ and the arguments put forward there. Admittedly the forum hadn’t been used for some 4 years, but in light of recent discussions I feel it is worthy of a revisit. Not that I feel we need to split but more because we need to identify ourselves better to the public within that group.
To start with the GLBTIQ is another community, in my opinion anyway that we all belong to. Whether or not you agree with me is entirely up to you. The debate about whether to split from them or not included arguments such as sexuality and gender. Now, we are all gender diverse in this group but like it or not sexuality also comes into the equation. If you are happily married but feel that you are a woman, want a sex change but also want to continue your marriage then, gee! does that mean that you are now a lesbian or do you still see yourself as a man at home with the wife.
Life as a tansgendered person is difficult enough without trying to discriminate against other organisations based on the sexuality of the individual. How can we hope to educate the community about ourselves unless we can create a set of guidelines for ourselves, now more than ever we need to be a cohesive community with an achievable goal.
We need to be able to educate aged care facilities, Medical facilities, Government departments and the public about the identity of a transgendered person, the needs of a transgendered person and why we are what we are. People need to look at a man in the street in a dress and think nothing more than, oh that’s a TG person and keep walking. Or in a perfect world, see the man and think absolutely nothing of him at all.
Because people, like it or not I think our sexuality is just as much a part of the TG equation as anything else we have discussed. Sex and Gender mean the same to some people, ie:- male sex, female sex. Sure debate this issue but don’t lose sight of the common man’s lack of insight into the differences between sex and gender.
It doesn’t matter how much research you do we still have to communicate with the common man and that is where we need to generalise our vocabulary a little. Technical terms are lost on most people, so perhaps to get our message across to the masses we need to dumb it down a little.
Maybe things like:-
1. Transgendered people are born not created.
2. Transgendered people need to identify as the opposite sex.
3. Transgendered people are normal and work at normal jobs.
4. Transgendered people are no more sexually deviant than any other person.etc etc…. Perhaps we could produce something akin to a mission statement that can be printed in some forms of the media. But whatever we do I feel it has to be dumbed down for the masses at least, the intellectual research and media releases can be for the professionals in our communities.
I hope I haven’t offended anyone here because there are a lot of very intelligent and insightful people in the TGR Community, people that will make a difference when dealing with officials and Government departments. For the rest of us we need to understand how we are seen by everyone else and find a simple means to communicate with them.
Hugs to you all Pamela!!
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11 Replies
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I like this post.
There are some points that I would maybe make differently but the main messages are to get along, get on with it, work together & improve societies understanding of us. This is a positive post & even though some of us may not totally agree with every word, it would be very wrong to not recognise the positive & inclusive intent of it.Quote:People need to look at a man in the street in a dress and think nothing more than, oh that’s a TG person and keep walking.That pretty much sums up my experience & my attitude (semantics aside)…& better still my experience suggests that many people do react that way.
Quote:Sex and Gender mean the same to some people, ie:- male sex, female sex. Sure debate this issue but don’t lose sight of the common man’s lack of insight into the differences between sex and gender.When educating anybody, it is important to understand what their level of knowledge is. It is important that we educate those that don’t understand the difference between sex & gender…it is the basis for our varying understanding of ourselves & much of the reason why some in society have difficulty with transgenderism.
Quote:2. Transgendered people need to identify as the opposite sex.I do think it is important to very clearly point out though that not all Tg people identify with the opposite sex. I believe this one point is one of the stumbling blocks for society to understand the concept of diversity in sex & gender.
Quote:Perhaps we could produce something akin to a mission statement that can be printed in some forms of the media.My hunch is that it already exists in some form or another. Those of us who can need to enquire with as many other organisations & groups to find out what else goes on out there in the extended Tg community. If we do we stand to create more relationships, learn more & I suggest be able to more clearly determine the answers to the questions currently being asked in the suite of threads that Pamela alludes to.
For anyone who is inclined toward reading within the field of gender studies, there is a fairly recently published book (I think) entitled ‘ Imagining transgender’. I will dig it out & post the authors details incase anyone is interested. It investigates how & why so many different personal descriptions & understandings occur among the sex & gender diverse. Not an easy read but thought provoking.
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I advocate a united GLBTIQ “community”. The larger the community the more chance we have of being noticed and heard by various government and nongovernment organisations.
There is however unfortunately a tendency I feel for the “TIQ” to be “tacked on” a bit even by that community. I read a blurb somewhere recently from a interest group nominally for GLBTIQ within my profession and nowhere in the blurb was there mention of non gender conforming individuals.
I am not sure if it is due to a lack of leaders within the TIQ community that we have less of a voice in the GLBTIQ community or if there is a little bit of a fobbing us off by the GLB community in case we dilute the message so to speak. On the other hand I have come across some rampant homophobic attitudes even among the TIQ community (thankfully not on these forums but certainly on some international forums) which certainly is not that endearing to the GLB community.
WRT getting the message across to the masses, I think that needs a couple of things:
1. individual real life stories that people can relate to and become engaged in.
2. A charismatic individual / leader whom people are interested in (in Australia preferably a sports person!).
If 1 and 2 can combine in the same person then all the better. Whilst mission statements and the like are great and can help keep everyone focused, to the general public they are just meaningless words on paper. People want / need individual stories that they can connect to. -
I first want to say I hate labels, even the LGBTIQ label. I wish everyone could just get along.
I have been thinking about the issue raised on this topic for the few weeks and what the LGBTIQ community means to me and how I see this community. The direction should be unified to benefit everyone, but I think the two halves (LGB & TIQ) are on different quests and some animosity between them (hopefully due to ignorance rather than hatred). I feel very sorry for people whom are part of both sides and have friends on one or both that don’t share their respect for both sides.
With the representation of gender variant people appearing in more of mainstream media, as opposed to just the more traditional Lesbian, Gay and a small amount of bisexual, I think uninformed CIS gendered people are having trouble separating gender and sexuality. To many of the people I work with or socialise with (whom are not aware of Sammie), the LGBTIQ “label” (for want of a better word) encompasses a group of people different to their way of life, and in some extremes a threat to their understanding of life. In asking plenty of questions (and hoping they don’t start wondering why I keep poking) I feel they don’t understand the sexuality of the first 3 letters of the acronym are very different to the gender variant side of the last 3 letters, and that not all gender variant people are also part of both LGB community.
Whilst I agree that education is paramount to the benefit and equality of the whole LGBTIQ community, I feel the needs of the LGB is very different to the TIQ. Both sides would definitely benefit from marriage equality, but TIQ people require additional voices in the government / schooling and other forms of the wider community to explain the difference between gender and sexuality.
Personally my family feel the GLBTIQ community is an abomination. They do not know about Sammie. They feel “sorry” for my gay cousin whom they have said behind his back would have a better life in every way if he was heterosexual. But then, discussing the idea of the GLBTIQ community with my cousin, he openly thinks the TIQ part shouldn’t be mixed in with his sexuality. I wonder how much of the LGB community are also ignorant to the understanding of the TIQ, and feel the LGBTIQ community should split in two.
Kind Regards,
Sammie -
What was that old saying? Something like “if we don’t all hang together then we may all be hung one at a time” If the gay community had not united to get themselves recognized and the law changed so that they too could have some rights, it might still be illegal to be actively gay. My older lesbian friends in town , talk about the fights they had in Sydney in the 1970’s when the yobbos came to their pub to cause trouble. They fought and won a place by being out, loud and obvious.
This is the difference I think between the factions. How many of us are out to our wives, families and work mates? How can people see you as Trans AND an ok person if you are hiding it? Whether individual opinions agree or not on which part of the ” umbrella” they belong to, is irrelevant I think. The umbrella is there if you want to be under it, if not then don’t be! It is simple. While we are bickering about who is who then we will remain apart from our Society.As for slogans and simple descriptions, I agree as long they are part of a wider education program. Public identities such as Cate Macgregor, Caitlyn Jenner, Eddie Izzard, Grayson Perry etc are out there putting the case, taking the flack and achieving in their own fields and well received movies and tv shows are putting us on the map. There has never been an easier time to be Trans and yet I rarely see many trans folk in my town and even then we tend to ignore each other in case one is offended by being clocked. Really, we need to just get on with it and then others will see us as a normal part of life. The younger ones are doing it it seems and workplaces are willing to be accepting so what is the issue? It is still our own guilt, deceit and shame that is keeping us down I believe.
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Christina – Great post. You have sliced through the issue with precision. I was reflecting on this last night as I walked back to my car all dressed up. Yeah we really need to get on with it.
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Christina a great post indeed we need to stand together for the betterment of all ..i am guilty of not being out to family and friends but i agree whole heartedly with what you said .thanyou
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“2. Transgendered people need to identify as the opposite sex.”
I have to take issue with this statement because it is not all-encompassing and because it makes an assumption about transgenders ie that they all want to live 24/7 as the opposite sex . I identify as both male and female and only “need to identify as the opposite sex” some of the time, not all of the time.
Transgender is a very diverse term and should be clearly defined and understood by all who take part in promoting our interests. I think the Wikipedia definition is the best that I have seen thus far.
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I tend to agree with Sammie. This subject and what has been written, reminds me of concerns I had with the local CD/TG group taking part in the local Pride Parade. Such involvement reinforces the community perception that CDs and TG people are gay. The first thing my wife asked me when i came out to her was “are you gay?”
To add Queer on the end of the GLBTIQ and then suggesting the separation of GLB from TIQ then indicates that TI = Queer or includes queer. Queer in the community at large is taken as a substitute for Gay, and not perhaps a particularly nice one.
I would prefer not to be included in the GLBTIQ grouping thank you whilst this misapprehension on the part of the community is extant and suggest we would be better off just having TI as our acronym and leaving the GLBQ to carry on without us.
I also wonder whether the fact that I feel comfortable in my skirts and dresses, but also in my male clothes, am I transgender. Or am I just a cross dresser, a man who prefers to dress differently to the majority of the male population?
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June, it appears safe to say, after reading your post that you feel comfortable ( with your self). If that is the case then that is good.
The idea of inclusion in the GLBTIQ umbrella is, to me, an acknowledgement that I accept the right of other members to self expression and in turn hope for the same. It does not mean that I am other than what I believe myself to be. I identify as QUEER because many of my friends here in town, mostly lesbian, identify themselves that way and include me in their group. It signifies a direction away from the mainstream gender poles of only male or female and was historically, an attempt to own the term and rid it of it’s power as an abusive term.Noone has to feel included under the GLBTIQ banner but as I stated it is there for those that do wish to be included. The strong emotional reaction of some to the idea of inclusion makes me wonder whether they harbour homophobic ideas ( I am not saying that you are in this category) and fear that they may be tainted if seen to be accepting of gay people and their cause.
Politically the need to be part of a group is necessary in a world that seeks to impose conformity of gender on others. If you don’t wish to identify as transgender even, then don’t but most will agree that “cross dressing” is the activity that a transgender person, typically does.
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My concern was that the majority if CDs are being broadly included with the gay grouping when they are not. It compounds the misconception of a lot of the general populace. I am certainly not homophobic not do I consider this concern to be homophobic.
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This could be of relevance. There were reports on the news that during the gay parade a number of trans people were assaulted by members of the gay fraternity. There was a sit down protest by trans and gay people in relation to the NAB and their involvement with gays in detention. Some gays attacked the trans people who were taking part in the protest. Throwing bottles and yellow dye at them.
To be accurate there are a lot of comments on this and not all the facts are known as yet.
