Do heterosexual crossgenders relate differntly to women?

[Anonymous]

I think thats a difficult question Vicki. Personally – in the way you pose the question – as group ie. hetero-CDs I doubt there is any marked difference.

I also don’t know that ‘gentle, caring and understanding’ – are necessarily transgender traits. I suspect there are wives and ex-wives of TGs who think they are/were anything but ‘caring and understanding’. I think ‘selfish, self centred, anxious, moody and frustrated’ are more likely descriptions.

By in large, TGs aren’t particularly macho in any environment though some do macho jobs.

Others may have a different view.

I guess the question I have is why are you asking this question?

Fiona xx

[Anonymous]

I think the tern “Relate” may be a bit broard in regards to your question. I can’t speak for anyone else as that would be generalising, but I personally believe that because part of my brain thinks/is female, I’m more able to understand how women would view something in relation to how a guy would view the same thing. My fem side has enabled me to be more open to my partner in our relationship, I still however struggle with my feminen and masculen sides as most times they seem to disagree on how to act, for example, the more I open myself up to my female side, the more compassionate I find I have become. I now find myself getting teary-eyed during those sad moments where-as before I accepted my female side, I would have just brushed it off as another one of lifes hicups.

In regards to being more gentle and caring, well, I’ve always been that way, which is one of the things my partner loves about me but she also loves the very masculen/macho side of me as well.

I can’t answer your question but I hope this gives some insight.

hugs,
Alicia

[Anonymous]

This topic has certainly opened up some very complex questions about human behaviour. I basically agree with what Fiona Alexis has said but I will attempt to draw out more on the subject.

Firstly – CD’s who make wide-ranging assumptions about the nature of female behaviour and attitudes continually amuses me. Ie. Women are caring, soft, intimate, gentle etc. I would argue that these behaviours have more to do with socialisation and the historical role of the women in society(and may not even be all togther true) than some default setting in the gene pool of women.

Most of the CD’s who make these assumptions about other people (in this case women) are still struggling to come to terms with their own behaviour, and to define them self. They struggle to find an appropriate box that they are comfortable to fit into, but manage to put others into clearly defines boxes.

I think it is completely false to believe that CD’s are in any way more intimate and understanding with women, than the rest of the male population. In fact I find most cross dressers to be sexists to one degree or another, and many to be misogynist. Eg. The use of language such as “Slut” by CD’s is appalling. Slut is a DEROGATIVE term. I personally have never met a CD or any other person, who has enjoyed their female partner being called a slut. If Jack went up the hill and had sex with several partners he would return as Jack, if Jill did the same she would return as a slut. Derogative terms like slut play a historic role in the oppression of female sexuality. CD’s who say they like to look like a slut or act like a slut are making a gross insult against the female fashion or role they impersonate or identify with.

In order for those of use who enjoy fashion and roles normally associated to the female, to come to terms with whom we are. We must have some understanding on the history of gender relations. Women have been oppressed by men for thousands of years and are still being oppressed in many areas of our Western Societies today. It is only in recent times that Women won the right to vote, the right to own property, the right to divorce their husband, the right to equal pay for equal work, etc. They have still not won the right to have sex with who they want, as often as they want. They have still not won the right to be respected as a person instead of a sexual object by many men. And so on and so on.

Hope some one finds this of some value or interest.

Tanya

[Wendy_3]

Girls,

I have a different outlook on this issue.
The male is brought up in a different environment – he is taught to be macho, not express any emotion and believe in his self importance.
The traits that make the person are very much open to both sides of the gender world, namely;
Listening (as against just hearing).
Empathy (caring about people & showing emotion)
Healing (wanting to creat friend rather than remaining enemies).
Persuation (as against manipulation).
Respect (toward others)
Focus of what I am rather than who I am.
Growth of the individual (probably seen more in bring up children).

Fortunately, the female gender show these trait more often although it is catching on in the male world.

It’s the quality of the person and not their gender that counts.
For us CDs, stepping into the other side brings these traits out because we subconsciously recognise them, they appeal to us and we want to be part of it. As the TV commercial says “I’ll have some of what she’s having”.

That’s all from me as a start to the day.

Hugs,

Wendy

[Anonymous]

Wendy, you say you have a different outlook on this issue. Well I hope you don’t mean different to me, because I agree with what you’re saying. You say, ” a male is brought up in a different environment” I agree that this “different” environment creates a “different” type of person. But I would add different regardless of their gender. In broad terms a woman raised in the same manner, will express the same personality. I was making the same point as you when I wrote, ” these behaviours have more to do with socialisation and the historical role of the woman in society.”

Wendy also said, “Fortunately, the female gender show these trait more often although it is catching on in the male world.”

I totally agree Wendy. They show these traits not because they are women, but because of the socialisation they receive. Therefore it is not “female” behaviour. You are right that this is also catching on in the male world. Let me also add that many of the traits that are normally associated with males Ie. Violence, confrontation etc. are catching on in the female world. Particularly young females.

Why is this so?

I think it is because of the growing equality of women in society. Women are now out of the kitchen and out in the world of competition on the sports field, competition in the work place etc. Women now have role models like Lara Croft in Tomb Raider and Geena Davies played the action hero in the Long Kiss Good Night. The movies are now full of women who take no crap and kick some serious arse. This is a big swing from the movies my mum grew up watching, where Doris Day playing the cowgirl was about as tough as they got.

Wendy also said, “It’s the quality of the person and not their gender that counts.”

Spot on sister! It’s not their gender, not their race, not their sexuality, not their religion, not their physique, their nationality etc. that counts.

If we (cd’s, tv’s, ts’s, tg’s etc) cannot be accepting of others, how can we hope to live in a world where people will be accepting of us.

I have become a more tolerant, caring, loving, emotional, empathetic person not because I get all dressed up. For me it has been accomplished in my masculine world, by studying the evolution of human society, and recognising what we need to do to continue to drive humanity forward to make a better world for all. Wars, violence, anger, oppression, etc. will not make a better world. What I have done is become a more complete human being. If dressing has helped you do the same then great, keep on dressing.

I have some male friends who express the traits stereotypicaly associated with women. They are not gay. They do not cross dress. But they have an amazing capacity to empathise with people all over the entire world. These friends spend a great part of their lives trying to help people they don’t even know. This if not feminine it is being a decent human.

Great letter Wendy, please write some more if you feel like doing so. I will enjoy reading. Tell me if you think I’m wrong, I’m always eager to learn more.

Great letter from Kerry also. I loved so much of what you wrote Kerry. I would love to here more from you also. You use the phrase “whole person”, which I think means the same when I say “complete human being”.

Tanya XOXOX

[Wendy_3]

Hi Girl,

Well Tanya, it appears that there is not much difference between our thoughts at all.

The traits that I talked about come from a leadership programme (Power of Servant Leadership) but should be part of everyone’s life. It is remarkable that the author and driver of this programme advocated these traits in his writings in the 60’s and they are only now becoming the noticed and driven as the ideal.

Tanya you are quite right in saying that the female environment has changed with the competitiveness in sport , work and social life – the latter being influenced by trashy movies and the roles some actors project.

If all of us (as you rightly pointed out irrespective of race, colour & creed) strive to adopted these positive traits then the world would be a better place to live in (and here I mean society in general, neighbours, communities & nations).

The clear issue is to understand and not be judgemental and that is very hard – society projects that we become judgemental (look at your news and current affairs items). If we all learn to understand, wow, what a great place. I can alway recall reading that great book by Harper Lee – To Kill a Mocking Bird (page 219 from memory) – understand is about “standing in a man’s shoes and walking in them”.

How does all this relate to CD’s – we talk about acceptance and understanding and at the same time when our position is disclosed or if we are ridiculed we go into hiding, perhaps complain about the other person when in fact we should be trying to inform and persuade the other person. If that is unsuccessful we should (sorry, must) try and understand the other persons point of view. There are always two sides to the story and whilst we would like acceptance of our position this is not always going to happen. The best that we can ask for that other people understand and the same applies to us.

The need for all of us, whether in CD or male mode, is to present the right example (leadership, traits) for all people – it is not as many would like us to believe “winning is everything”.

Between, all this and my CD I believe that I am becoming a better person and try to encourage people to share these traits that are more visible but not restricted to the female gender.

I wish the younger woman would realise the numerous positives they have and there is no need for them to adopt the combative roles that are projected by some males to be successful in whatever venture.

I forever live in hope and see numerous positives in a lot of younger people, it all boils down to, as I put it, “maturity of mind” and the ability to think for yourself.

Anyway, that’s enough from me whilst having an early morning coffee.

I’m running late – so not proof reading my message.

Hugs,

Wendy

[Anonymous]

I agree with what Tanya has said in her first post and she has expressed my view better than me.

I think sometimes we go through this kind of mental checklist and assign parts of our personality as further evidence of how female we are. They are usually those traitss that fall into the category ‘sugar and spice and all things nice’.

There is a process of self discovery – but I think it is also a process of self justification that we are more than just weird guys who dress up as women. And we get caught up in this ‘oneupgurlship’ – of –

‘like most trannies I knit’
‘Oh yes! I knitted this brilliant Fair Isle sweater once’.
‘But I cry every time I watch Bambi’
And I cry every time I watch Dumbo’
And I cry every time I watch Rocky 3 – sorry NO – really I don’t watch Rocky movies – I hate macho sports movies..what was I thinking…

But I don’t think being transgendered requires any further justification or evidencing – or substantiation – than you just are transgendered.

Fiona xx

[Juliette]

Why does there need to be a justification process at all? I am amazed that I need to justify or even need to apologise for having the desire to have a broad spectrum of feelings. Yes I enjoy Arnie movies. Yes I enjoy deep and meaningful stories and I cry. For heaven sakes I enjoy house building and other so called macho stuff and guess what I enjoy wearing stilletos. Big deal.

My personality is what it is. Why does it need to be seen as different because of what I like to wear? No one pulls a woman aside and says. Dear – I see you are wearing pants with running shoes for 5 days in a row – damn you must be a dyke! If I wear a skirt once well then I am insane and gay or worse.

I am so fed up with the “best we can ask for position”?

To have to justify that I desire to wear more than crap clothes. To have to even contemplate that I need to consider anyones opinion if I want to cry for whatever damn reason I want to. Why is it that if I want to wear a skirt that I need to even think about it so that I would only wear it where appropriate? What a brilliantily screwed up world.

Lots on my carving board

Julliette

[Anonymous]

Personally I dont think cross dressing makes me any different in my relationships. I am pretty much the same person dressed or not….

I dont pretend to understand men or women we are all individuals and have our different ways of coping in different situations. If we cry at the movies in “man” mode does that make us any less a man? I don’t think so, though society might view it differently. If we cry at the movies in “dressed mode” does that somehow make us more of a woman? Once again I dont think so, it just makes us more of what we already are.

I pretty much agree with Juliette with respect to there being no need to justify who or what we are. I certainly agree with Tanya (who by the way looks fantastic!) in that we as crossressers/tg’s whatever should not be denigrating the female species by calling ourselves sluts although some girls obviously get off on the dressed down look!

Anyway thats enough from me.

Kiki

[Anonymous]

. . I go along with much of what’s been said already , particularly by both Fiona and Tanya . . .
It seems to me that there’s always a societal pressure to at least appear to conform to the socialy accepted , gender stereotype of the day . But as anyone who’s been closely involved with a bunch of macho males over any length of time will have observed , few are as tough and unfeeling as they try to make out and anyone who’s worked amongst a group of women will no doubt have witnessed a frequent callous lack of sensitivity when dealing with or gossiping about each other .

Quote:

Like do CDers relate to women on a more intimate and caring fashion.

With reference to this quote , an observation I would like to make after reading many of the posts throughout TgR is that I’m realising that beyond the fact that I dress as a woman I seem to have very little . . and in some cases nothing else in common with some of the gurls here . . Which to me illustrates not only the amazing diversity that exists amongst those who are grouped collectively under the heading , “Crossdresser” but also the pitfalls of stereotyping .

Oh . . Kiki
I know from reading your other posts that you are a particularly sensitive person , but as I’m a gurl with a love for PVC , short skirts and stilettoe heels I’m wondering exactly what you meant by ” the dressed down look” particularly in reference to {a description I hate too } “sluts” ? . . LOL . . and why dressed “down” , as though wanting to look sexy is in some way lowering .

Lena

*

[Anonymous]

What a great topic very thought provocing. As I write this I am thinking to the word and things said to me by DR CHERRY MY GENDER SPECIALIST. I leanrrnt from him well had verified what I felt was likely and had read on the net this. At 8 weeks of term in our mums womb , part of our development is the brain. At this time we get flushed with a substance. i am sorry but dont recall what its called. The dosage they believe has a big say in how we are . eg females get a dosage of this and it creates a female brain. Males may get a little to a lot. In my case and others like me who believe we are females trapped in male body and set about changing , correcting this. We have got the dosage to create a female brain, however, a male may have a fem side but still be male in body and mind just got that litte extra of the fem dosage. equally the aggrro neanderthal guy well he got none and its sad. I dont pretend to be 100% accurate on this just as I understand things when dealing with what i have to do.
Irony with me is I had chromosone test done and they found I actually had higher than average testosterone as some girls are born xxy etc.. I therefore believe you can be male and have a softer side relate to woman and still live as a male it comes back to iether or both. What happened to our brain while in the womb and our chromosones.
This is how i try to explain things to peopel who question me about myself and decisions and my goal in life is for all of us to be happy and understood and accepted by society.
cheers to all

[Anonymous]

Hi all,

Been away for a while so just catching up on the postings.

Just wanted to reply to Lena and her comments about my comments on “dressed down” look. I have re-read my original post and it could be taken that I was denigrating those that dress in PVC etc but that was not my intention. I for one certainly like wearing short dresess! What I was trying to say, and not very well, was that we are all different. What I choose to wear and what others wear are most likely two completely different things.

By “dressing down” I was referring to the more vampish dressing that looks great on some people. It was not meant to be denigrating in anyway and I was simply making the observation that some gurls like that way of dressing. Nothing wrong with that. It’s only when it is associated with the words”dressed like a slut” or “sluttish” that I think we are barking up the wrong tree I just find that denigrating in the extreme. Self denigration is generally not a good thing, in my humble opinion!

So I hope that makes sense and Lena you go for it!!!

Regards,

Kiki

[Anonymous]

. . . No problem Kikki I didn’t think for one minute you were intending to denigrate anyone sweetie . . .

Well . . X and Y chromosones and testosterone levels , females born in male bodies ? ?
I don’t know about that or where my genetic make up levels stand , but since I was a kid I’ve never particularly gravitated to one sex more than the other . I was always just as happy to do macho kids stuff with the boys , like climbing trees , home made explosives etc and just as eager to learn how to knit and sew . Just as happy playing with the little girl next door with her dolls house as building model airplanes which were destined to be shot up or blown up .
I’ve had many gender diverse occupations over the years from fashion designer with my own label to truck driver , from greasy factory machine operator to window dresser . Always just as happy and equally as proficient with a welding torch and an angle-grinder as sitting at a sewing machine with a Vogue dress pattern . . and never really thought much about it .
Now I don’t know if this has any “clinical” bearing on the situation with regard that old favorite the “left brain / right brain” thing , but I’m ambidextrous . . that is I can do most things equally well with either hand and only a couple of things predominantly either left or right .

Always totally heterosexual but with a life-long fascination for show biz “female impersonators” , although never having any desire to CD myself . . not untill much later in life , it’s only over the last 6 years that I’ve been fully dressing and developed and established myself as a seperate female personality within this male body that “we” both now share . . but only with barely a 10% time-share option . . LOL
“He” { my male alter ego } always the philosopher , simply accepts the situation and lets me do my thing whenever I get the opportunity and has little interaction with my friends . . and I am completely unknown to “his” . . .
“We” get on just fine in here together . . . it works well and neither of “us” has a problem with the way “we” are .

.