Freindship w/Sex-=-Being Your Self Without/ Having To Root.

[Anonymous]

Quote:

HI.
i want to be a woman, but itll never happen…i want to be happy, lets hope it happens..
but when meeting and making friends in the gay lesbian transgendered community, being as the lines of the old male gets with the female thing that the major part of society accepts, is blurred or opposite, my question is being in a relation ship with kids, and also the female partner wanting sex on the side, with a regular partner, were does that leave me

Why follow what society accepts? Are you suggesting that society don’t accept gay relationships (either Male-Male or Female-Female) …?

Quote:

its a complex and confusing thing..
normally a woman goes for a man, but im a man who wants to be a woman, and is in a relationship with a woman, also i have a low libido and a small penis size, although i like sex, i cant keep up with my partner but feel she should have her needs met as well.

First, just to get it out of the way penis size or libido has nothing to do with it. One of my ex’s keeps pleading with me not to have “the op” because she reckons it’s large, I have told her, whether large or small the fact she’s my ex means it’s really none of her business. Also, just so that’s it clear, having a small penis size when transitioning is a good thing, it’s a lot easier to hide (tuck) if you’re small. My ex vs me are a good example of the differences, she (also pre-op) could tuck and stay tucked even without knickers, I have trouble hiding my bits even with 2 pairs of tight knickers or a gaff. Hormones do not make the penis shrink (unlike popular belief), it’s the lack of use that will cause shrinkage.

Back to your issue…

Sexual Preference has no connection with Gender Identity other than for defining labels. Physical sex characteristics also has no connection with Gender Identity other than defining labels.

Gender is determined by the brain, before you’re born, and your gender will never change. You may choose to present a gender that you are not, but your gender will not change. ie If you’re male gender you’re male gender regardless of hormones or SRS. If you’re female you’re female regardless of hormones or SRS.

Physical sex characteristics are what people see of your body. This can be changed with SRS. (Note: I specifically refer to SRS not GRS, because the surgery reassigns the physical sex characteristics, it does not change your gender).

Sexual orientation, according to some in the field can be split into three distinct types/classes:

Private Sexual Orientation – This is what goes on in your mind, this is what you want.

Public Sexual Orientation – This is what you present to others, if you give people the impression that you are a straight male, then it’s what they will perceive without actually seeing any evidence.

Actual Sexual Orientation – This is what you practice. If you preset your public orientation as straight, but actually go on same gender dates then you’re actual orientation is gay.

Note: I referred to “same gender dates” not “same sex dates”, what determines your orientation is your gender vs the actual orientation of those you date. For example, if you are male in gender, and you date a pre-op M2F transsexual girl (like me), then you would have an actual orientation of straight. Similarly if a pre-op transsexual girl dating a transsexual that was actually a male (diagnosed) taking self prescribed hormones, then you would have a actual orientation of straight. Two pre-op transsexual girls dating would have an actual orientation of lesbians. A female dating a pre-op transsexual girl would also have an actual orientation of a lesbian.

I’ve limited the examples to transsexuals because people often understand the terms with male and female, but confuse the issue with transsexuals. Just remember that the gender of the person (female in diagnosed M2F’s, male in diagnosed F2Ms) vs who they date determines their sexual orientation.

Now, I have already stated, gender does not change, sexual orientation on the other hand can do, and that refers to all three types (Private, Public and Actual.)

… ok all that out of the way something else to through into the mix …

Consider this scale:

G

---

B

---

S

Where:

G -> Gay (Lesbian is just gay for 2 females)
B -> Bi Sexual
S -> Straight.

Where are you on it…? I’ll lead by example, this is where I fall on the scale:

G

---

B

---

S
…….^

I have a Gender Identity of Female, this means that few males “do it” for me. I get turned on by females (physical sexual presentation, including pre-op transsexuals.) That said, I love the sex, which is why I’m not a lot closer to the ‘G’ end.

There are very few people that are at either end of the scale, most people of the world are somewhere in between (not matter what they might present or claim). Being at the S end of the scale, would indicate that you only ever get turned on by someone of the opposite sex to your gender, and that there is absolutely no-one else in the world of the same sex as you, that would turn you on….

Hope this gives a little insight to you and all… It goes way past your original post, but I hope it will help you organise your thoughts….

Take care,

Michelle

[Anonymous]

Hi Deana,

I know how you feel. A lot of what you said also applies to me.

You need to see a counsellor to sort out your mind and get direction as to what you want out of life. Once you have direction and focus, that is what you go for.

If you do decide to become a woman there will probably be heartache and sadness from your partner and kids. It will influence their lives as well.
How much will your partner accept is what you need to find out. Are you going to wait until the kids are older. Would you put your family/partner thru this.
What awaits you if you do go further, lonelyness?. How many TG’s have partners.

You made a comitment to your partner and she has her needs those needs to be respected as she would for you. For a little while try and think from her side. Or perhaps how would you feel if she became a man.
There will be so many questions and answers that you need to consider
It is usually not a overnite decision. It can easily take years

My personal opinion is to sit midway. Sit on the fence, not barbed wire.
Talk to your partner as to how far you can go and set a solution
Your partner and kids will still have you and visa versa
You will also have Deana some of the time and it may be enough. Time will tell if you want more Deana.
At the midway level you can still make Deana look better and take voice lessons for example. Go public, sing as Deana on stage and see how you go. Experience more of lovely Deana. Deana can sill go a long way before decision time.

Leave it at this level for a while to sort out your feelings or something else changes. If by chance Deana, full time is not your future, your bridge is not burnt.

Georgette

[Anonymous]

That is good advice Georgette, it is easy to feel the desperation of not being able to express the SHE within but in the end, the sun will rise, the birds still sing, life goes on despite our feelings of stuckness. To just abide with the reality of that stuckness can be very constructive in the long term, it is important not to leave victims in our wake if we are plunging on in our chase for ” womanhood
Having said that , I also feel that we should express , on the outside, what we feel within, in Counselling is is called “congruence” It is very important to living a healthy inner life. The problem seems to be that it is not easy to really know what our TRUE feelings are. My advice to Deanna is to work hard on knowing yourself, have counseling, read books, be brutally honest with yourself, love yourself and work with what you’ve got and you may come out better off than a hasty decision made out of desperation. Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Deana, a question that you asked was “can it be about friendship if you meet other people in this society?”

The answer is yes. Not everyone is here for sexual reasons and that is all that there is to it. If you only want to know people and make some like minded friends then that’s fine. I for one am in that category, I haven’t had a sexual experience in 18 months or more, not even on my own for that matter, I just don’t have the drive to do anything anymore.

Depending on how far/how much you get into society I agree that you may well get asked but quite simply “no means no”, anyone that doesn’t respect that isn’t worth knowing in my books.

Peta A.

[Anonymous]

thanks ladies, for responding.

i really dont know what i was thinking that day, i was a little confused and sad i suppose, but thank you for reading..
its great to have a link to people in the same situation as my or similar, and i hope i can learn some stuff, and even help someone along the way..

for me thisisnt easy, given my situation and history, but its a journey i want to take, regardless….

my work and family scedule stop me form doing things, but i hope to get along to some groups and outings and meet dsome of you soom..

take care

[Anonymous]

Sex and relationships and friendships are very difficult, I agree with you on that.

Penis size should not be a concern to anyone, but if you are concerned deeply about that, then I suggest you seek advice from a surgeon to get an extention done.

(Frankly speaking, sexual performance is often the marker by which people measure each other and ourself too, so please don’t he harsh on yourself. Keeping up with your partner is of concern, but if she is needing more than time perhaps to get out the bedroom and away from the bed and away from the missionary and into something that tickles her fancy: Role Play, Romance, BDSM that puts her into the centre of attention and is satisfying to her. Age has something to do with it too. Hormones do have something to do with it, yours and hers! Learn to make adjustments because of this, its a natural and expected thing to happen, its just that we forget we are a bunch of chemicals and minerals in a soft fleshy bag strung on a mostly rigid endoskeleton. It changes with time, so you need to take into account these changes.) You say you have a low libido, well try this, mine is barely on the scale and what interest there is reaches its highest peak about every 4 or 5 months. If you are doing better than that, good for you!

Society expect and has trained Men and Women to get together, and yes, reproduction-wise wise they are made to connect sexually. And that is neat, but the whole Gender thing poses a bit of a hassle for us. I tend to describe my sexuality as being set by my Gender, ie I am more bisexual that anything but I at times describe my sexuality as hetersosexual. I equate myself as woman and I like guys so therefore if it must be labelled, I’m a heterosexual transsexual person. Some might say that that is playing right into the hands of the expecations that a boy TS turns into a woman and dates guys, that being the straight and socially and medically expected thing. I have people around me that think this is wrong and one even was surprised when I said I wasn’t gay…. ie a lesbian. To me there is only gay/ bi/ str8 and lesbian is gay, simply stated. You are not in any boat that others have not felt, either now, in the past or will feel into the future. Its how you are going to cope with it right now that matters.

Many cannot maintain a relationship with their wives, both sexually and otherwise and split up, but they still have a great bond. Alas I cannot comment on this as my short marriage ended 16 years ago. I can only empthise it is not easy. Friendship comes with finding commonality with likeminded folks, acceptance and a degree of comfort with them, not sexually but with everyday stuff. Its better to dismiss all sexual thoughts from the situation and just see them as a person that like you: wants to talk and be accepted. It also means getting out there with them and doing things, going places and having fun as two or more people in a social setting, dinners and films and galleries etc. Friendships are nurtured and worked on, gradually, trust and familiarity is made, but it is very difficult to have friendships when people are secretive about themselves or are hung-up about their gender/ dressing/ presentations etc. That makes for a rocky road, and often the best thing you can do if you feel stable is to present as stable a person to them as you can be. They will find you of interest and knowledgable and people will gravitate towards you because of this. Too many people are take take take and very rarely give to others, so be careful and look after yourself in this aspect.

Tis okay to feel low, and saying it is good, it means you are self aware and acknowledging of your mood etc. Frustration is a high issue for trans people, they are impatient and want it all now, but it doesn’t happen that way. Bummer eh? Its about relaxing and plan into the future just a litle bit at a time. You say you won’t be a woman. Why the heck do you say that? Does a neo-VJJay automatically make you a woman? Do breasts (or as I call mine The Girls, and jokingly Airbags) automatically make me a woman? No, they don’t, woman/ female is more than the sum of those two physical items, its thinking and relating and empathy and passion and caring and a list longer than I care to put here, these are the things that make a woman. There too can be a list for men/males and if you sat down and looked very hard, I bet you’d find many qualia that cross over from one list to another. If your mind says I equate myself as being female and I wish to live as a female/ woman, then that is enough. No neo-VJJay is going to make you suddenly a woman, there is no magic wand, its takes hard work and grit to make yourself change, willfully and consistently. Flip flopping between the two states isn’t living, its a form of limbo. So plan a bit at a time, make changes physically yes, but its the internal changes that comes through the fastest… mannerisms and behaviours, social norms and expectations, those are what people should look at just as much as they do the body. Act like a Yobbo and people will see you for that. Act with grace, speak well and dress well and people will be less likely to reject you.

If you are at home much of the time, get out the house and be with other trans folks. Then after awhile start going solo and observe observe observe and at times imitate and experiement, if you like something use it, if not, reject it and move onto the next thing, but its about Evolution, not all at once. And happiness comes with being able to recongise realisations of your needs, but don’t heap all your needs in the one basket either. Its lots of things that make us happy, from the shit going on, to the good things happening and between. Often people think that they are the only one doing it tough, but you aren’t, plenty of folks are. You hve a roof over your heap, food to eat, warmth and water, a high degree of safety and security, a job (with luck) friends and a partner (and maybe children too) a car to get about it, go on a hoilday once-in-the-while and much more. Much of the world population struggles for even just edible food and drinkable water on a daily basis, a lot worse than you. So you have it good, even I do and I have little. Am I happy, yes. Are somethings difficult, yes, but in time they will get sorted out. And for you they will do too. So whilst you may not life fulltime as a woman physcially, you have the chance to do so, and your brain is the best thing for making you live the way you want. In fact I bet you are doing so more than you give yourself credit for!!!!!

Can you have a friendship with other Transgender community persons? Yes of course you can, it goes without saying. But try to not expect it to happen overnight, it will take time. Great friendships are far and few between and dare I say, you are married to your greatest friend right now?!

None of this is meant as a personal having-a-go at you or anybody else in particular, but setting out my thoughts concerning the issues raised in this forum posting.

[Anonymous]

My two cents

I liked Georgettes post and agree this is something that will not happen over night. I made a plan for myself that I mapped out everything I needed to do from start to complete living 100% female.

The plan was cut into stages. Each stage I could stop at or pull out. I only moved forward when I was happy with where I was. It also allowed me to change the plan and break it up into more stages if I required.

Stage 1 really had nothing to do with changing into a girl, it was getting myself ready for that. I had to lose weight, sort out things on my body that I could do my self like waxing etc. All these things I did and I was still a boy but I knew I was taking my first steps. I was so unhappy and doing this for this reason gave myself some selfasteam, and I was happy I had started. I also started to talk to others in the TS/TG/CD groups.

Stage 2 was to dress in public outside my home town in events. This lead to more time been in girl mode as I could and allowed myself to see if that was what I wanted. I did this all outside my home town so I could have gone back to my old life if I did not want to proceed.

Stage 3 was to start to bring my girl side into my life at home where I could, I talked to my close firend, family and tested the waters at my work without going in girl mode. I would dress more around home and then allow my close supporting friends to interact with me in girl mode. From here I had to work out if I could move to the next stage.

Stage 4 was hormones for me. By now I had sorted out what I wanted and I was ready to move forward. I knew what to expect in my work place, my family and friends. All these things will also change when you do it but you have had plans in place to handle the situations if they took place.

Stage 5 will be SRS for me

The process will take years, but when taken at the right pace, you will know what to expect and know where you are going. If at any stage you wanted to stop there or go further you could. It gives you time to adjust and allows you to plan to invole others in your life. Your family will need time to adjust too, so you must give them that time. The bad new is that just telling them is not enough, you need to press their boundries, but at a pace that does not push them away.

I hope this helps, I was prepared to lose everything I had to do this, I was lucky that I got to keep my parants and most of my friends, but its all in the way you handle it. I was also lucky I did not have a family of my own to have to deal with. I did have a GF and her kids at the time but we split on more than just me being trans.

All the girls that reply have had to deal with this before, you need to work out what works for you as we are all different and with such good advice from the others that have posted you have lots to work with and think about. Good luck. Keep us all informed on your progress.

xxx

Kelly Jones

[Anonymous]

I feel that if you have a low libido and are not on HRT then it may be that your Testosterone is low or very low .So if I were you I would have my hormone levels checked .If the T level is quite low its best to either take Testosterone or start on female hormones as you need a predominant hormone to basically protect your body.
With the low libido ,to satisfy a partner you can take Viagra ,cialis,levita or use that injection method to get it up and without this its difficult to help your partner . I know a couple of pre op tgs who probably will not have SRS but still live with (GG) girls in I guess are lesbian like relationships where they can forfill their duties via use of that needle .Also they enjoy this type of sex …
My experience when married has been that no matter what other methods I may use in sex, my ex was quite dissapointed that I didnt seem to be aroused by her. I just didnt know that my lack of libido was caused by lack of hormone …
I hope this is of help
Hugs
SUZZ

[Anonymous]

Quote:

anyideas, im just feeling low today, and if im to meet gals from the ts/tg/cd rhelm, can it be about freindship or are all these lines blurred, im so confussed..

I agree with this lines blurred thing, totally! Honestly, the more I talk to trans people and interact with them over the long term the LESS I believe the bull we get fed about sexuality having nothing to do with it. Who came up with that anyway? What study was that? The actual science on this topic is very weak I’ve found.

Deana, there’s only two things I know for sure – (1) the transgender community is chocka full of pseudo science and crappy advice. I’m skeptical if someone “tells me how it is”.

But, although the lines are most certainly blurred – the best friends I have I’ve made in the trans community (or tangential to it). Which leads to (2) The trans community is chocka full of awesome people, many of whom make profoundly good, long term friends.