HRT & ambition

[Anonymous]

I think an apt response to your question Chloe would be that it can have the equivalence of being slapped in the face with a wet fish.

Everything you thought was important changes, how you approach things changes, the way you see things changes and the way you react to others changes. It does not matter what you thought would happen or how you thought you would deal with it. Nothing remains the same.

But, it all happens without you realising it. It is the people around you who notice things more until you come out the “other side”.

For me, I went straight onto the full 8mg dose and it was a very quick transition/adaptation for me. I understand others may say that it didn’t affect them, but I have seen enough people undergo “treatment” and the changes that it brings to realise that you yourself cannot always see the effects.

Physically, I was left feeling tired and lethargic. Testosterone gives you a natural edge when it comes to the physical aspects. Continued exercise will keep up most of your previous strength but it is much harder as your stamina will also be compromised. Muscle starts to lose it’s bulk. It’s easier to put on weight. So watching your diet and exercise program becomes more important.

The psychological changes are on par with the physical. I believe that the experience may not be so drastic for everyone, but my own personal experience was that I felt I was losing my mind for a period of time. Even down to the point that my sexual preference also changed. The evolution was subtle and firstly I lost interest in women. The first time I responded to the male physique came as a bit of a surprise, but not altogether unexpected or unwelcome. The stats say I am in the minority as the majority of trans people identify as gay. I was straight (with a few kinks) before and I am still straight now, probably straighter than ever.

All depends on what you ultimately desire to achieve I suppose. If you play with fire, expect to get burned. Are you prepared to pay the price when you get to the other side?

Moderator

Quote:

WARNING
TgR is not a medical forum and any comments you may read in TgR forums are only the opinions of the member posting. You should not assume that a posting on TgR implies any verification or independent review and whilst the advice is honestly offered it is made without knowledge of your particular medical conditions. You should always seek professional medical advice before taking any action that might affect your health.

[Anonymous]

Hi Chloe,

I agree with Portia, while there are a lot of physical changes (which seems to be what a lot of people focus on) the mental and emotional changes are quite profound. Its not until you look back over a period of time that you realise how much you have changed your thinking, responses and/or ideas and that is a wonderful thing providing thats what you and those around you desire.

One example: In my case I have always been into and technology built my career around this accordingly but find now that my interests lie in interacting more with others and I am more focused on people than technology and therefore dont get as much satisfaction from my job anymore. In fact I find it a bit lonely where before I would have been happy to work all day without talking to anyone.

When you start hormones they warn you that it will change your relationships with people around you. I remember thinking at the time this is something that I can control, after all I am still me, but in truth looking back it is not something that can be controlled (at least in my case but hopefully you may have a different experience) and ultimately all you can really do is start hormones (if that is what you need to do) and see where things end up.

I think it is fair to say in my case that my priorities have changed at lot since starting hormones. I dont know if I could say I am less ambitious, but perhaps for me more accurate description might be be that I am more accepting when I dont achieve my goals.

Best Wishes with whatever you decide to do Chloe

Alison

Moderator

Quote:

WARNING
TgR is not a medical forum and any comments you may read in TgR forums are only the opinions of the member posting. You should not assume that a posting on TgR implies any verification or independent review and whilst the advice is honestly offered it is made without knowledge of your particular medical conditions. You should always seek professional medical advice before taking any action that might affect your health.

[bee]

<> – Chloe Jan 14 2013

I can only report on my experience (everyone is different) so here goes…

There has been much written about ‘how HRT changes the way one thinks” and other stuff. My experience is that nothing like that has happened – for me it was the slight physical changes is all.

A Psych also asked me a similar question and when I replied as above, she commented that it was her clients who were still in the closet (and taking HRT) that had reported ‘mind changing effects’, and her comment was that it was probably all just projected ‘feelings’ as the HRT was the only thing the client was doing (rather than living their life in their true gender).

I agreed with her. I feel all this stuff about HRT changing your mind etc well might be a lot of wishful thinking.

My advice would be not to worry about the things in your question at all. Aligning your physical shape to your true gender, I feel does not change you inside. You are still the same person. Now of course its what’s inside that counts, and if you are not sure about that then more consultations etc would be helpful to sort that out.

So what are some of the physical minor changes one can expect with HRT? In my experience in order of experience: Smother skin texture, better body odor, (about within 3 months of starting), small breast growth – say to an A size over 2 years. Reduced body hair, but this takes a long time , say over 3 years. Also if SRS is in the plan, HRT will prevent hot flushes, which are not life threatening, but on 35°C days can be tiresome. A reduction of muscle tissue over time was noticed.

So to answer your question: I have found taking HRT has had no effect at all on changing any ability or ‘drive’ for goals or for success. However as you know in Australia the difference between the pay for Woman and Men for the same job is becoming bigger and bigger – so financial reasons and other factors may dictate a change in roles and tasks more than HRT. Also you may choose other roles that fit you better, that perhaps were not considered before transitioning.

Moderator

Quote:

WARNING
TgR is not a medical forum and any comments you may read in TgR forums are only the opinions of the member posting. You should not assume that a posting on TgR implies any verification or independent review and whilst the advice is honestly offered it is made without knowledge of your particular medical conditions. You should always seek professional medical advice before taking any action that might affect your health.

[Adrian]

As Bambi says everyone is different.

But I want to add my voice to Portia’s observation
“I have seen enough people undergo “treatment” and the changes that it brings to realise that you yourself cannot always see the effects. “

Whether the changes you perceive in your mind are real or not is something we can leave to Psychologists to argue about.
To those who observe you from the outside there are very distinct changes that occur in the way you behave and react. The change is anything but “all physical”.

I have been here for a long time now (sighs) with many I know going past me on high hormone doses pursuing their journey to SRS.

It is an observed fact that people behave differently as their mind or body responds to the changing hormone balance.
If someone is undergoing “treatment” they are very very (did I say very?) likely to change their behaviour at some point in the journey. When you are close to people and know them well you can see these changes.

But it is also very true that those changing are frequently blind to what is happening to them.
Not only are they blind to the change – what is worse they will argue that it hasn’t happened.
I tend to call things as they are (well as I perceive them).
As a result I have been rejected as a friend by many just for pointing out these changes. I don’t understand why this is the case.

We could go on and discuss how much these emotional changes result in the isolation and purging of friends that is so common amongst those undergoing “treatment”. But that wasn’t Chloe’s question. Another thread… another time….

Given the fog that clouds many minds perhaps the best way to answer Chloe’s question about “the effects it has had on your ‘ability & drive’ to succeed” is to suggest the question was asked of the wrong people. Instead of asking “those of you who are using HRT ” it may be more objective to ask those close to those on HRT if they have observed a change in drive. As Portia has observed – I think the answer is going to be “yes”.

I also suggest caution, as most of the observations I have shared relate to those who are on a journey to have SRS. Chloe writes “As I don’t believe myself to be at either end of the gender spectrum, I cannot argue that it is imperative for me to undertake HRT. ” Maybe we don’t have so much evidence of the effect of HRT delivered in that target population.

[Anonymous]

I have absolutely no experience with HRT or its effects but I would like to say that if you are at all worried that you may lose your way if you undergo changes, then don’t do it!

Sorry but I would hate to think that all my plans for the future were ruined by a decision to change some parts of myself, when I was altogether happy with what I was beforehand.

[Anonymous]

Something else that should be noted is that a reasonable amount of people undergoing hormone treatment also end up on anti depressant medication. I dont believe this is a result of the homones but more in relation to the difficulties involved with transition. Also a number of people with GID are treated for depression long before deciding to start hormones.

Some of these antidepressant medications can have more of an effect on motivation and drive and possibly ambition for some people.

[Anonymous]

I’ll ad my voice to this discussion because my experience has been interesting .

I would say not all of this is necessarily the hormones but a combination of them and the psychology of me. As a male my pursuits included running a business and chasing success in physical form, hobby was mainly motor cycles and fast cars risking my neck was a thrill I could not live without. There was of course a certain degree of pent up aggression and anger likely because of feeling trapped that was released with risk taking however this fails to entirely explain my change.

My drive did evaporate along with the competitive aggressive attitude that pursued physical success, risk taking became less important it mellowed me subdued my natural male inclinations. What has replaced it is financially not so good but emotionally much more pleasant.

My interest has switched to being far more interested in the well being of others and the goal seems to be more aligned with emotional success if you like. There is no aggressive competitive drive in these feelings they a certainly different from the person I was and are not solely explained by psychology. It is my understanding from reading than testosterone has a lot to answer for in the male psyche aggression, territorial behavior, sex drive and those I would attest to.

I believe the changes are subtle but can have a profound impact on some individuals .
My participation in these forums is a reflection of my change for some I’m sure it is different and for some likely not but as humans we all react different to treatment.

[Anonymous]

I started living my life as a woman in February 2011 and started HRT treatment one month later.

At the time I was unemployed and 2 months away from the bank repossessing our house, so it probably wasn’t the wisest of choices to make. I found it very difficult getting employment especially after revealing that I am transgendered. I work in the suveying field which is very male dominated. One company even said that they that they would employ me if I dressed as a male which just wasn’t an option for me.

My wife of 27 years is extremely supportive so I was very determined that my lifestyle choice was not going to cause our financial ruin. I started work in May 2011 in a FIFO capacity in the gas fields west of Brisbane. However I have to live three weeks of every month in a 400 man mining camp, 95% of which are males, which was a hige challenge at first.

In my former life I had no tertiary qualifications whatsoever but now have completed four TAFE courses, a CERT IV in Spatial Science from the Canberra Institute of Technology and about to start studying for my diploma.

Did the hormones have any affect on me? Apart from the bodily changes and being a lot more emotional at times I would say definitely not! I no longer have all of the psychological and emotional baggage from my previous life holding me back. The ability and drive I have to succeed was always there. I am just now more determined and better equipped to use the knowledge I have to succeed.

[Anonymous]

Moderator

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Off topic personal message moved to Bobbie’s blog

[Anonymous]

Thank you to all who replied to my questions. You have all contributed to helping me work towards a more informed decision, though none has been reached yet. Rome wasn’t built in a day & nor was Chloe, it’s taken 48 years so far, a bit longer won’t hurt.

[Anonymous]

Quote:

I’m hoping that those of you who are using HRT can share with me the effects it has had on your ‘ability & drive’ to succeed in the pursuits you undertook prior to HRT, especially if you undertook tasks & roles that are considered stereotypically masculine.

hi chloe

i had meant to respond much sooner with my own experiences, but better late than never!

since i had begun HRT:
– i have much better taste in clothes, decor, furniture. everything i have purchased for my apartment suits each other, and my style
– resumed interest in creative writing, drawing, game development ideas, creation of computer-generated electronic music
– enjoyed going out with friends, instead of it being a chore (or maybe i just have better friends now?)
– have more patience with people, more social, and easier to interact with strangers
– lost interest in regular computer gaming. and computers in general.
– lost interest in martial arts
– lost interest in military things
– love flowers
– love outdoor scenery even more

now have a drive to perform better and make my way up in my profession instead of just plain cruising along. having switched teams (pun intended!), i am now considered a senior system administrator / engineer, and currently acting manager, and intend to work my way to be a team leader / support lead of a technical / operations group such as mine.

this could never have happened had i stayed as my old self. that person was content, and eager to please, a pushover even. could be very easily swayed and had no desire to change the status quo. afraid of committment. total loser actually!

some of the changes above were slow for me to realise, perhaps some were brought about by a change in lifestyle, but either way, there is no turning back, and i believe this way for me is all for the best.

good luck, whatever your choice may be.

regards
maya

[Anonymous]

Hi ,
I have found only Positive outcomes since going on HRT and have never been so happy and at Peace . My two Sons have noticed my changes more than I did with my Oldeste saying that the one thing he liked about my transition is that he was no longer terrified of me and could relate .I decided too pursue work as a female in a female dominated industry and have been offered various jobs and promotions along the way . I said no and feel at 57 and financially secure that I just want too cruise along and enjoy life however I am on Gold Coast Gay Girls Commitee , started a Support Groups in my Spare time and I am constantly asked too join commitees ! I did loose too much weight down too 65 kg and did not exercise at all and this has caused too much Muscel wastage but I am slowly getting some muscel tone ! Gender Reassignment Surgery was to me a very Spiritual Outcome and I will be one on 24th March which is now the only Birthday I will celebrate .My Drive too succeed at what I do is Still Present but I’ve lost my aggressive nature too get things done and have a better perspective of other people and their feelings !Cheers Ella-Kristine

[Anonymous]

I have to say my experience echoes that of Bambi. Physical changes were subtle but effective. As an aside, if you should start on HRT use a tape measure on a regular basis. The change in your proportions (more than your size) will be comforting to you. But physical changes are well documented and fairly consistent.

Before I talk about perceived/observed emotional changes I have to say that when I commenced HRT I did so as the final tick on my check list. By that I mean I had spent more than fifty years of my life wondering why I felt the urge to dress and comport as a woman. It gradually became apparent to me that, on the balance of probabilities, I was genuinely transgendered and the only way to confirm that for me was to try HRT. I felt (and still stand by this) that if I were truly TG then HRT should not change me much emotionally. If I had been born with some instrinsically female component then oestrogen should awaken that further, not change me substantially. As far as I’m concerned this has been the case. Two and a half years into HRT and my emotions haven’t changed. My body has turned from athletic male to tomboy female (my GG partner’s words).

Ambitions are unchanged. I had my transition party in December last year and having effectively retired I still have the same plans for the future. I still love pounding the roads on my pushbike, and I’ve always cried in the movies.

I think Amanda-Adrian and Bambi are both potentially correct. There is always the risk of the self fulfilling prophecy (HRT did or didn’t do this…I know it) as well as over-adherence to personal dogma; actually I know better about what people are really experiencing. I’m not having a dig there, just under-lining that both what we experience AND how we interpret it, will appear to be or actually be different on HRT.

From my own experience I consider it unlikely it will change your ambitions.

[Anonymous]

Hopefully I’ve replied to each of you personally but in case I missed anybody, thank you all for sharing your experiences.

Felicity, you wrote;

Quote:

It gradually became apparent to me that, on the balance of probabilities, I was genuinely transgendered and the only way to confirm that for me was to try HRT. I felt (and still stand by this) that if I were truly TG then HRT should not change me much emotionally.

I understand your point but it would only hold true if you do not allow for each individual to experience differing degrees of masculinity & femininity. According to the TgR survey results, many of us experience both.
To assume that your emotions will not change would suggest there are right & wrong ways to be Tg, or at least more complete ways.
I don’t wish to argue the point as I very sincerely appreciate that you replied. However, my specific reason for the thorough intro to my question was to make it clear that I do not subscribe to the gender binary view. It is not what I experience. By your measure, if HRT changed my emotions significantly then I would not be ‘truly Tg’.

[Anonymous]

I appreciate Chloe’s thoughts and apologise for not making my point more clearly. I highlighted both Bambi and Amanda-Adrian’s points as valid and to me they are at odds with each other and therefore indicate how much the “right path” can vary for each of us. My experience was meant to be just that, my experience. I was in no way, shape or form suggesting it was the right way. Quite the contrary-it’s more, without wishing to be glib, “if it feels good, do it”.