Is an androgyne O.K. by you?

[Elizabeth]

Chloe questions is being Androgyne acceptable?

For a start Chloe, its not what others find acceptable in you that matters, it’s what’s acceptable to you. The only person you need to satisfy and be comfortable is yourself. So, you consider yourself ‘intergender’ and I suggest many of us would really feel the much same about ourselves. How you dress doesn’t matter at all. Its what’s projected from our inner selves that gels with others around us. It’s on that basis that we are either accepted or rejected.
I’ve said this before, if you can’t accept yourself you can’t possible expect others to accept you. Having said that, I know just how difficult it is to truly accept yourself, very difficult indeed as there always niggling doubts. There is no such thing as perfection, it’s a fallicy; we can only do our best and that means acceptance, and how we portray ourselves. Last night I was privilaged to being on the inaugral Xmas in July train trip. I was surrounded by 240 truly beautiful people, the train was full. In our little group of 15 transgender people, all were different, some tall, some short, some skinny, some ‘comfortable’, some were as male, mostly presented as women, but the thing was, they were all beautiful and totally accepted. We had a ball.
Be yourself Chloe, and I wish you all the very best,

Hugs,
Liz

[Adrian]

Cloe,
Thanks for not raising a dormant thread – some threads are best left like that! But a link to where you read these comments might be helpful.

Like you my search for understanding took me first to Seahorse. The society does a great job at helping people come out of the closet (that was me) and help them feel that that it is OK to be different. But the group also had a strong message that what was OK was to be a heterosexual man who likes wearing a skirt from time to time.

After a while I realised I didn’t fit that description so I started to seek out the company of those who were leaving Seahorse on a journey to be accepted as in society as a woman. But this group also had a strong message. A common view was that if you weren’t joining them on their journey then you “weren’t serious” or you were “just a crossdresser”.
As I view my current physical sex with indifference, and have no dream of being perceived indistinguishably as a woman in the change room I could only stand to one side and let my friends go on their journey without me.

With increasing confidence came the realisation that society doesn’t actually ostracise those who present in an ambiguous gender. This gave me the freedom to present just how I felt – my clothing reflecting feelings from very feminine (at smart restaurants) to very male (skippering a yacht). Being comfortable in how you present is a far richer experience than dressing to match a binary gender that isn’t ‘you’.

As for “passing” – I realised that is a constraint, an affectation, and above all a delusion. Virginia posted some quotes in a thread about passing
(http://forum.tgr.net.au/cms/forum/F124/2065-065&highlight=passing)

Quote:

It is great to be passable but it is even greater to be accepted! You can only be accepted by being a good person and realize all around you are people that may like you, may hate you and some may even just not understand you. Don’t run from any of these people, give them your best smile and look them in the eye and say hello. If you run, you will be running all your life.

Quote:

passing is just sweeping the struggle for acceptance and equality under the carpet, and placing our own needs above those who will never pass.

I don’t think I could express it better.

Back to the question = Is an androgyne O.K. by you?
Well androgyne is a label, like gender queer and inter-gender.
I don’t associate with the specific label – but I do associate with the concept that not feeling either man or woman is OK.
So the answer is yes!

[Anonymous]

Yes, yes and yes. I agree totally. Be comfortable in yourself and be well. A rose by any other name etc…

Labels mean little. They are a tool to greater understanding of ourselves and each other yet I find it is often difficult to distinguish one from another. I recently invented (at least i believe so) ambigender because I’m happy to use either side as the mood takes me.

In reality, so often I read that there are as many different gender variants as there are people so, in fact, I’m Alex.

[Michelle_Alan]

I whole heartily agree with all the comments made so far. It is just as difficult to find your self in the middle (if we must have continuum) as at the ends where at least you can plan some sought of future. I have struggled as many have with ambiguity. i.e. I loved presenting as a woman but also thoroughly enjoyed that black tie evening with my S.O. Nothing seemed to fit and like most when joining forums and needing to put in a female name I did so. It seemed to be the way to go, but i found that this actually created more confusion as suddenly I was two people, when deep down I knew I was one. Confused but really one person. I have always been Alan so to suddenly call myself a girl and be addressed as Alana (i know not very original) was in itself confronting. Only now I am coming to grips with who I am. Notice I did not say what I am!
We each have to choose our own path and be comfortable in it. The good thing is while it is our choice and our journey many have either gone on similar paths either ahead along side or coming up behind.
If ever there was a need for tolerance it is amongst the tribes of the transgendered community. We have a lot to teach society, because baby once you take that first faltering step in heels into the sunlight you realise what tolerance is all about.
Alan

[Anonymous]

I have to agree with many of the comments here, there does appear to be a distinction between those that carry on and those that are content to stay the way they are. I read a comment in one of the other forums that virtually stated you shouldn’t even bother if you haven’t got the guts to go out dressed. Now maybe I read this wrong, but I certainly felt as though I should give up being a cross-dresser if I did not go out in public dressed.

So I guess it all comes down to how you feel about yourself, I am comfortable out in stealth mode. I don’t want to advertise that I am a TG person in public, and I don’t look down on someone who only dresses in extreme privacy. We are all different, all part of the enormous spectrum that is called humanity. We should accept each other for what we are, not what we feel each other should be.

I am happy in the middle, neither male nor female, just me!

Hugs Pamela!

[Anonymous]

Firstly, thank you all for your kind & accepting words. They are in stark contrast to the sentiments that prompted this thread. I don’t yet know how to make a link but the posts can be found in the ‘all about you’ forum & the thread is called ‘are you always dressed for TgR’

I’ve lifted the following from each of your posts, as each of you have made points that I firmly agree with;

Quote:

We are all different, all part of the enormous spectrum that is called humanity.

Quote:

If ever there was a need for tolerance it is amongst the tribes of the transgendered community. We have a lot to teach society,…

Quote:

In reality, so often I read that there are as many different gender variants as there are people so, in fact, I’m Alex.

Quote:

How you dress doesn’t matter at all. Its what’s projected from our inner selves that gels with others around us. It’s on that basis that we are either accepted or rejected.

Quote:

…I view my current physical sex with indifference, and have no dream of being perceived indistinguishably as a woman in the change room…

Quote:

…society doesn’t actually ostracise those who present in an ambiguous gender. This gave me the freedom to present just how I felt – my clothing reflecting feelings from very feminine (at smart restaurants) to very male (skippering a yacht). Being comfortable in how you present is a far richer experience than dressing to match a binary gender that isn’t ‘you’.

As for “passing” – I realised that is a constraint, an affectation, and above all a delusion.

So as to not be misunderstood, as a general rule I feel very comfortable being the gendered me that I am, however that be described. For most of my life my presentation has been androgynous & I don’t attribute gender distinctions to my behaviour & feelings – never have, I’ve never been able to relate to such attribution, that’s just me.
I’ve never been ‘blokey’ & don’t enjoy associating with those who are. Conversely, I don’t believe myself to be especially feminine. I just like what I like & as a general rule I try not to let others opinions effect my presentation & behaviour decisions. Having said that though, from about age 30 to 47, I consciously ‘toned down’ my presentation for business reasons.
Recent changes to my circumstances have caused me to once again re-evaluate my choices. One of the outcomes of that has seen me return to a more complete or less moderated expression of me. This time around, presenting more completely as a woman is an addition to my androgyny. I am not aware of having strong feelings of this type before – possibly the relative freedom of expression I was encouraged to pursue by my parents is why I didn’t have a strong need to express myself as a woman, but rather, not gender specific.

N.B. I have only just read the guidelines regarding the use of labels on these forums & apologise for my use of the term ‘trans’ in the initial post. (It’s just a term I’d picked up along the way).

Moderator

Quote:

That’s OK – the thread started life in an unmoderated forum where anything goes. And whilst trans is not the preferred label round here – it is a label used by many

[Anonymous]

Yey another Androgyne.
I identify as an “inter-gender androgyne”
I have over the last 5 years or so coped a lot of flack from binary Trans people. For not conforming to either box. I present (full time) as me, not as a man or a woman. With a full beard and very feminine clothes sometimes with makeup. I have no desire to pass as ‘normal’ and have reclaimed ‘weird’ as a word that fits me nicely be true to who you are I have found that I relate more to Trans then woman in the term Trans woman.
You are not alone I left this forum when there was only talk that was not accepting of me and everyonce and a while I’d look at the tgr digest I decided from that to check out this forum again. I’m glad I did and to know I’m not the only one anymore. Yes I accept you. I hope you will accept me to.

[Anonymous]

Hi,

With myself its ,what you see is what you get. It makes no difference what i wear, could be a skirt & tee top or overalls, I really dont care my clothes dont change who i am

Mentally , Psychologically & Emotionally Im female & some of my hormones some of my body is yet im not a compleat female , there are details about my self that are male in my facial features , so im looked at & i can see thier thinking what the hell am i, till they get to know me , they may never know,

Im accepted by some 1000 people with in the groups im a member of most are women of cause, yet even many of the men accept who i am .

Though some groups are women only so that shows were my loyity is,

I can not join a male group it never worked before & sure wont now

I never tryed to be female or a woman i dressed as one because i am one yet theres no hideing the fact of my maleness ,

So to sum up im nether male or female yet both, i like being weird because i dont have to conform ether way yet really im a woman who is different, so it can be confuseing

iv not used lables though there is one that sums me up quite well you can quess what that is though its not accepted over seas in the states by the trans community as i thouight it wss & itt seems there are some in the UK that seem to not be happy with it ether,

I do know here for some its not wellcomed with in some groups hence we are not wellcome.

What iv tryed to do is keep away from labels & see if we can all be accepted for who we are with our differences because then we can be accepted as i am with in our groups as being normal & so what if there is a difference about us why should that stop us just being who we are & part of the groups we belong to or can,

As to I D well its just a woman ,

…noeleena…

[Anonymous]

I think each individual needs to decide how they are comfortable presenting. It is not for anyone to say how anybody else must present.

Personally I don’t want to be accepted, rather I want it to be a non-issue. At the moment that means trying to ‘pass’ and that is what I always try and do (with varying success as I evolve physically).

However if I wanted to be literally dressed as a clown then that is fine too.

[Anonymous]

I never imagined this thread would ever be read again.
Not that it matters to me but it may be of some use to someone else one day, so I offer this update; I don’t ‘actually’ identify as anything other than human. If I deem it to be necessary or helpful, I describe myself to others as a transgendered person so that they may understand why I appear different to them. I do this so that non trans persons can be educated about gender variance for the benefit of all gender variant people. If any further explanation is entered into, I may explain that I feel niether male nor female but recognise that I was born male. I may also explain that I for a long time presented androgynously, for another prolonged period as a typical ‘bloke’ & now by a far more conscious choice, as that which people understand to be a woman – ranging from very feminine to a more robust expression of a woman.

Unlike Tatiana I most certainly do want to be accepted…but as a human being equal to all others. Therefore ‘passing’ for me is wonderful if it happens through me doing what I would do anyway but not if passing means taking extraordinary steps that impinge on my time, health or finances. I personally have far more important things to do before I die than appease anybody else. I do however understand Tatianas’ desire for what I call anonymity.

As personal replies unfortunately aren’t allowed within a post I will say that I accept all people based on how they treat me (& others if I am in a position to observe that).

[Anonymous]

How absolutely wonderful to come home to such enlightened people.. xoxoxo Thank you all.
I joined TGR quite some time ago and then went travelling with work and such like for several years… always packing my heels and ‘that other bag’ discretely in the luggage…. heaven forbid an older man should drop a bag full of gorgeous lingerie on your local railway/bus/airport platform… no I never did… Along the way I met most those mentioned here with similar results and observations so I wont repeat them… It’s quite a wide and well travelled path we all walk on our fragile heels… My search was for the proverbial box/label…. not so much for me as for the ‘others’ so that they could somewhere to put me…. I am intersex/intergender/genderqueer/ and that will do. I found a website that carries ‘Self Outings’ of those, many younger ones, who are rapidly becoming more able to elaborate on their personal gender issues and one struck me like a thunderbolt…. “I am not a male and I am not a female, I am sommething you will never understand!”… A cry from the dark night of the soul of young person.. Ihave taken that brilliant quote and use it often in relation to me. The only difference is that now the rapidly opening breach in the gender walls is giving us much more room to move and Now I add… I am intersex… 50/50 male and female, two spirits happily coexisting in my boy body. No I have no intention of transitioning in any available direction as I love the body we both live in. Besides getting dressed in the morning can be so much fun these days…. and I say to the writers on htis subject… HOLD YOUR GROUND… there are many who want to move us to one end or the other of the gender spectrum… DONT GO!… we are not ‘stuck in the middle!’ gods do not make mistakes!… we are a minority at the moment and in a couple of generations INTERSEX will be the norm. We are priviledged to be part of natural evolution in progress,, much of nature is ambiguous,,, humans actually have been also for thousands of years…. congratulations and welcome to the next level of humanity… where we have both the masculine strength and the feminine softness neatly packaged in one body how lovely to think of a ‘male’ intersex and a ‘female’ intersex getting married and ALL FOUR aspect of their gender being available… xoxox <img src="smileys/heart.gif" width="" height="" alt="<3" title="