Is same sex marriage an issue for the T community?

[Anonymous]

Actually I think it is an important issue as the failure of political leadership to recognise same sex marriage is indicative of systemic discrimination against a group in the community (homosexuals). The existence of such systemic discrimination, with its tacit approval within political leadership at the highest level, presents as a concern to other groups in the community who experience forms of systemic discrimination, including the transgender community.
I would hope that political leadersip which is prepared to address this issue, helps to lead community values, and that this is something which ultimately can lead to greater community acceptance for all groups who feel marghinalised in the community to some extent, including the TG community.

[Anonymous]

This is a transgender, not a gay Forum so why do we need to bring this debate here. As a transgender community we deal with enough discrimination without needing to take on board issues of other groups.

I didn’t hear the gay community protesting when we were excluded from Anti-discrimination legislation. And there particularly strong forces seeking to have the T removed from GLBT

“We already have the right to marry in our affirmed gender.”

Yes, I have some ill-ease that we have something which the gay community is being denied, but it remains that this is a transgender, not a gay Forum

Christina

[Anonymous]

In an article I posted on the first of August

A recent Galaxy Poll showed 60 per cent of Australians were in favour of same sex marriages, up 57 per cent from its 2007 poll and 38 per cent in 2004.

The issue here is acceptability
Acceptability of same sex marrages
Poll showed 60% in favour in a recent poll assuming 2009
Poll showed 38% in favour in 2004

An increase of 22% in 5 years

My statement is public acceptability increase of transgendered/ing persons would also have a substantial increase hopefully with similar percentages

With greater acceptability of diversiveness like transgendered/ing people are going to more acceptable, which hopefully means
Less snickering behind backs
Less stares
Less nasty remarks
etc etc

Fine for those who pass easily, but I am placing more emphasis on those who do not, like me.
And hopefully for those who are in the closet, it would be easer for them as well.
I know that news of greater diverse acceptability is refreshing for me and hopefully for others as well

Georgette

[Anonymous]

Quote:

This is a transgender, not a gay Forum so why do we need to bring this debate here. As a transgender community we deal with enough discrimination without needing to take on board issues of other groups.

I didn’t hear the gay community protesting when we were excluded from Anti-discrimination legislation. And there particularly strong forces seeking to have the T removed from GLBT

“We already have the right to marry in our affirmed gender.”

Yes, I have some ill-ease that we have something which the gay community is being denied, but it remains that this is a transgender, not a gay Forum

Christina

I disagree.

Marriage is a trans issue, because the law prevents hetero pre-ops and gay post-ops from marrying, but allows gay pre-ops and hetero post-ops to marry, and not only is that unfair, it doesn’t even make sense.

I have a friend who can marry his wife in England, but not in Australia, because he still has a uterus. His uterus shut down long ago from all the testosterone injections he’s taken over the years, so removing it would be a completely unnecessary surgery for him, if it weren’t for these stupid laws.

If marriage was defined as a union between two people, instead of a union between a man and a woman, then all trannies would be able to get married regardless of whether they’ve had surgery yet, and that would be great.

[Anonymous]

This is some of what the GLBT Lobby consider reasonbable trade-offs with Anti-discrimination legislation, so they can have their freedom of self-expression protected

In WA the list of permitted discriminations if you are transgendered includes:

Within employment or applying for a job;
Being or becoming a commission agent;
Working under contract;
Being in a partnership;
Membership of a professional or trade organizations or professional and trade qualifying bodies;
By employment agencies;
Within education;
When accessing places and vehicles;
In obtaining goods and services;
Using any kind of facility;
In rental or other accommodation;
Buying or inheriting land;
Being a member of a club;
Playing or administering or coaching or refereeing or umpiring sport.
Filling in application forms; and
Membership of superannuation schemes and provident funds.

Transgendered Western Australians can be:

Summarily sacked;
Refused employment or contract work, or being considered for such by employment agencies;
Refused membership of clubs, trade or professional organisations or qualifying bodies, or have their membership rescinded;
Refused education, or be thrown out of an educational institution;
Thrown out of offices, shops, train or bus stations, toilets, buses, trains, ferries, taxis, doctor’s practices, clinics, hospitals, you name it;
Refused accommodation, or thrown out of accommodation;
Denied inheritance of land, or the right to buy land; And more.

In NSW the Courts and Police are specifically excluded from Transgender Anti-Discrimination legislation, and the NSW Anti-Discrimination Board is under no obligation to, and in fact has refused to accept submissions from Trans-lobby groups. Decisions on exemptions have been made and transgroups have been excluded from Board hearings

Again, my point is
This is a transgender forum, not a gay forum

For those who wish to debate or vent gay issues use a gay forum please
And for the record, I clearly identify myself as a lesbian, so the gay marriage issue does impact upon me

Thankyou
Christina

[Anonymous]

Hi Christina

Thankyou for your post and you opion is interesting. You have valuable information that I do enjoy reading.

I do understand where you are comming from, but I tend to agree that this does effect some of us here that are transgenered. We do have the right to talk about these topics.

Amanda is the one to decide if this topic should or should not be talked about. I am not a CD, but I do not complain when CD type topics are talked about, infact I find them interesting. So as far as you telling the rest of us to take this to a gay forum I dont feel is right.

I know that I want to be a girl, or as close to a girl I will ever be. After SRS I will have my birth cert changed to female. If I decide I want to date and marry another female in the future, I would like to keep that right.

I really dont fully understand, but I think that would make me both gay and transgendered, so I dont think I would be allowed to marry after that point, as I will have a female birth cert and she will have the same. Please correct me if I am wrong or if I dont understand.

xxx

Kelly Jones

[bee]

Gender and sexuality are sometimes confused.

The Queensland Association for Healthy Communities Inc. has published a 28 page booklet that is designed to support service providers building rapport with transgender (trans) clients. Tips on client consultations, preventative health care and sexual health are provided to assist services working with trans clients.

A quote from that booklet –

“Gender identity and sexuality are not the same

A person’s sexual preference is independent of their gender identity. People often confuse gender identity and sexuality. Gender identity is an individual’s sense of identity in relation to the categories of male and female. Sexuality, on the other hand, is an individual’s sexual, emotional and physical attraction, and desire towards another person.

Trans people may identify as heterosexual, bisexual, gay, lesbian and asexual.

For example:
• Trans men attracted to women may identify as heterosexual
• Trans men attracted to men may identify as gay
• Trans women attracted to both men and women may identify as bisexual
• Trans women attracted to women may identify as a lesbian
A trans person’s sexuality/sexual identity is not dictated by their surgical
status or bodily state.”

You can read the 28 page Oct 2008 publication here (PDF)
http://atsaq.com/files/Supporting%20Transgender%20and%20Sistergirl%20Web%20verision.pdf

~bambi~

[Anonymous]

“We already have the right to marry in our affirmed gender.”

Size and boldness of the font notwithstanding, Chisholm’s decision in Re Kevin whilst a victory of sorts for some transgender people to marry in their affirmed gender, still presents some problems for the TG community.
Firstly, the decision reaffirms the systemic discrimination in the Marriage Act that marriage is between a man and a woman. This of course means that the decision does not give any assistance to a TG girl who wishes to to identify as female and wishes to marry her female partner. Likewise it does not assist a TG boy who wishes to identify as male, and wishes to marry his male partner.
So as the decision continues to emphasise the traditional view of marriage as stated in the Federal Marriage Act, the victory may be somewhat pyrrhic in nature.
The issue will be resolved once the Marriage Act is amended to recognise same sex marriage. Therefore, to answer the question as to “who cares?”
I do.
Is it a non-issue for the TG community?
Not in my view, as the systemic discrimination in the Marriage Act affects many in the TG community as well.
And at a broader level, a failure in leadership to address systemic discrimination in whatever form, ultimately impacts on all of us who, for reason of our TG status, or even for other reasons, continue to experience such discrimination in other aspects of our lives.
As for the apparent lack of solidarity and support between the gay lobby and the TG community I am unable to comment. However, perhaps I naively hold to the view articulated by Cuban revolutionaries:
“El pueblo unido jamas sera vencido!”

[Anonymous]

Louisa,

Thank you for your very considered response to my viewpoint.

Just last week US Congressman, and long standing gay activist, Barney FRANK, was continuing to defend his now 2 year campaign to have gender identity removed from the proposed Employment Non-Discrimination Act. This man is vocal and determined in not supporting any legislative protections for the transgendered community.

Sadly, if it happens in the US, it will become an acceptalbe way to think here, from the GLBT lobby.

The US averages the murder one transgendered person every month. On a per capital basis that is a massive number. Where is the GLBT lobby protesting?

If you have not been exposed to villification from the gay & lesbian community then you are most fortunate.

Unfortunately, my Spanish is limited to ‘amigo’.

At this point I’m lobbying the Anglican Church of Australia to sanction the marriage of transsexuals within the Church, in line with Commonwealth law – ‘give to Caesar that which belongs to Caesar’

One tiny step at a time.

It takes time, and I fear it will be a long time yet. We have a F2M Senator, cross-dressers and a few openly gay members of Parliament from both sides of the House. Let them do their work.

I now have the pleasure of having to front the NSW Industrial Commission because of unceasing transgender villification within my workplace and managers refusing to acknowledge or stop it – in fact, retributive payback. As a Registered Nurses I have not once ever had a client/patient object to my caring for them over the past 24 years. In fact, some strongly object to my being outed. I hope you never need to deal with this psychological violence