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Politics and us – have we a voice ?
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Quote:It just isn’t true – we have statistics to prove it. Post-operative transsexuals are a small part of our community, highly visible during their journey, and often invisible afterwards. But as part of the wider transgender/gender diverse community they don’t have the numbers we often assume. And they certainly don’t carry with them a lot of robust relationships.
Yes most relationships do not survive transition. i can testify to this my relationship did not survive. most do not. But you state that post op transexuals become “invisible” after they complete transition then how do you know what sort of relationships they are in. Is there any data on this group of people or are your comments based solely from data about people in transition? I would suggest that many of these invisible people may end up in relationships and therefore would be affected by the marriage equality issue.
I feel that although you didn’t mention my name you are suggesting that i promoted marriage equality purely for my benefit which is simply not correct. i have been campaigning for marriage equality a number of years before my transition. Why? Because i believe in it. Because i am tired of people with an extreme religious agenda pushing their ideas into politics and others get discriminated against by law. There is an awful lot of people behind marriage equality who stand to gain nothing from it themselves.
Perhaps i have taken something the wrong way here (i really hope i have) Amanda, but the underlying feeling i get is you are suggesting that transexual people are selfish and that we have little benefit to the rest of the gender variant community. When i posted on this thread i really hesitated and perhaps i should have listened to my intuition, my aim was simply to suggest what people can do because nobody else seemed to say much to suggest possible ways to be heard. Perhaps i chose the wrong place to make these suggestions.
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Quote:Is there any data on this group of people or are your comments based solely from data about people in transition? I would suggest that many of these invisible people may end up in relationships and therefore would be affected by the marriage equality issue.No data – but then there wouldn’t be a specific transgender issue in this case. This thread is about the need for a transgender voice – for improving transgender experiences.
Quote:I feel that although you didn’t mention my name you are suggesting that i promoted marriage equality purely for my benefit which is simply not correct.I was commenting on the original posting – I have no idea what you have been campaigning for, nor what your motives may be for something I don’t know about. But my point was that issue based campaigning for transgenders in general is not necessarily achieving the outcomes needed by the majority of transgender people.
Quote:The underlying feeling i get is you are suggesting that transexual people are selfish and that we have little benefit to the rest of the gender variant community.A fair summary might be that many causes that benefit primarily transexual people have been pursued without much awareness of the wider community, nor consideration of the effects of such campaigns on the attitudes of the general public towards us. I hardly think that selfish is a word to describe that. I still do detect a lot of elitism amongst those who journey to change their birth sex – and perhaps that blinds many to the wider gender diverse community and its broader needs.
Comes down to educating I guess – both within and outside the community
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Quote:A fair summary might be that many causes that benefit primarily transexual people have been pursued without much awareness of the wider community, nor consideration of the effects of such campaigns on the attitudes of the general public towards us. I hardly think that selfish is a word to describe that. I still do detect a lot of elitism amongst those who journey to change their birth sex – and perhaps that blinds many to the wider gender diverse community and its broader needs.
You seem to have an us and them outlook which is disappointing for somebody hosting a site such as this but that is your perogative. I don’t see much point in pursuing this conversation further.
Moderator
Quote:Hopefully others will see the point in discussing the type of “voice” our community needs. This is a topic more important and worthy of debate than the alleged attitudes of the webmistress – Amanda -
Ok personal opinion aside though this maybe construed as such.
A voice is going to help make ideas a reality.
To be seen as we are and not heard makes us irrelevant to those that may make decisions that directly or indirectly impact on some or all of us.
Debate about opinion serves little to unify the gender diverse group into something to be taken seriously. There have been several television programs recently that have raised public awareness but there is no voice to continue efforts to educate people or infom them as to our concerns, dilemmas , challenges etc.
The project, today tonight both did pieces with no follow up because there is no group to follow up with or who will peruse them to do more . Education is about communication if we cannot communicate effectively how can we ever expect to change societies attitudes to us. ABC TWO has run two programs and we as a group can add nothing .
If we act as a team we may well win the hearts and minds of the majority of our countrymen. They may even begin to care and treat us with equality and dignity that we desire. If we bicker among each other and waste all our efforts there they will continue to ignore us and rightly so.
A voice politically or otherwise gives us all a chance of some sort of normality and peace of mind that we will find help if we need it , that we can live as equals, live without shame or fear that keeps us hiding , I am unsure how else I put it so for now I will see if this helps things along.
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Quote:there is no voice to continue efforts to educate people or infom them as to our concerns, dilemmas , challenges etc.
There is a link here to another barely active thread – the 2011 TgR survey.
viewtopic.php?p=21729#21729I totally agree that if we have a voice it should be for the concerns, dilemmas and challenges of the wider gender diverse community.
I thought the first step in proving a more balanced and less opinionated voice would be to determine what these concerns were.
The TgRsurvey attempted to do that for the “born male” half of the community – and the results pointed to a set of issues many of which are not the current lobbying ‘hot topics’.
But the TgR survey faltered at the point where it needed voices to communicate these concerns, dilemmas and challenges to the wider community. As you say “to not be heard makes us irrelevant”.
Despite the obvious need, there seems to be little interest in being a voice for the broader community. Is it perhaps that the real issues for our community are not as news-worthy/sensational or is it perhaps that they are a lot harder to address than just lobbying for selected legislative changes?
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I haven’t been around here long & I don’t have extended experience with the needs of Tg people but I would urge all who are involved in this conversation to continue talking. I for one am quite buoyed by the fact that the dialogue is taking place at all.
A collective voice is needed, I get the impression that we all agree on that point & we have all leaned toward the need for education. Personally I think that education is needed both within & outside the Tg community but suspect that it will actually be easier to educate & communicate with the greater community as their concerns & confusion about us are easy to identify.
It might be sensible to put aside personal biases (we all have them) & for practical purposes start with what we currently have at our disposal – the results of the TgR survey.
For the last week or so I have been going through the results to find anomalies & issues that I would like to discuss. When time allows I will post some of my thoughts – has anybody else read it & are you interested in discussing the results?Before we can educate people we need to know what it is we want to tell them. What do we want them to know about us? An advertising campaign needs a message, what is our message?
This thread has mentioned the issue of marriage equality & there are numerous other issues each of differing importance to people but my gut tells me that letting people know that we exist amongst them is the place to start. It’s not even an issue of WHY should they care but rather do they even know we exist?
I apologise that my posts often talk about my experiences but I can at least confidently speak about them. I have never felt so good about the society I live in than since I started presenting my gender as I understand it. It is an extremely rare day that I do not discuss my Tg identification with people I have only just met. It is also an extremely rare day that I do not meet someone who totally dispels the idea that society wont accept us.
It is our time right now.There have been a number of programs on the ABC of late that have a Tg theme, this is not an accident, somebody, for some reason must believe that the programming is warranted. I don’t know about such things but maybe one of you out there knows how we can find out why this programming is occurring now. It would seem that there is some interest building about Tg people & issues. It would be ridiculous to not get on board.
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Now we’re talking I concur with both of the last posts .I belive it is simple enough to approach the abc if you desire they have public relations .I will be reading the survey and then I am sure there will be something more I can say..
I am please to hear the voices starting join in a practical direction I think we have an opportunity here. Anyway looking forward to seeing more voices joining the chorus !
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Quote:I belive it is simple enough to approach the abc if you desire they have public relations .
I have no real idea of how to go about this but that’s never stopped me before.
I’ve sent an email to (I hope) the correct department & person to try & find out what has motivated the ABC to consecutively air Tg related documentaries.
My rationale to this is to see if any particular organisation is prompting the programming or if the programmers know something we don’t about the publics perception of us. Or is there a global swell of Tg recognition?
If we can understand the motivation it may help to guide us, or at least educate us as to how the process works.If anybody reading of these tentative steps actually knows what to do & how to do it please offer some guidance.
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Within the many comments posted in this thread there is ample evidence that just like any other ‘community’ those in the Tg version have differing views about what ‘we’ should or shouldn’t be doing for that community. I’m going to offer my views at a much more basic level.
At the risk of sounding somewhat “Life of Brian”-ish, we are all individuals and we all have a voice; our own. As has been mentioned, lobby groups tend to have a narrow agenda and their aim is generally to convince enough politicians that they (the lobby groups) can influence enough votes to make a difference for those politicians. That influence is often associated with ‘sensationalist’ events or happenings which also have a huge impact on popular public opinion. Harnessing those events and happenings and then linking them to an agenda is what makes a lobby group successful. Often, without those events the voices of the lobby groups remain minority voices. As cynical as I’ve become about politics in this country I still take an active interest and little I’ve seen over recent years has made me review my impressions.
I frequently write to our politicians, on both sides of the political spectrum, yet one sad fact emerges – I rarely, if ever, receive replies when my views or comments go against what is seen at the time as ‘public opinion’ or political expediency. The same-sex marriage issue is one example. In a similar vein, another issue was the comments made by Federal Coalition members about the ‘suitability’ of an openly-gay Federal minister to be a parent. When I have voiced views supportive or praising of politicians I frequently get an answer. That said, I am not naive enough to believe that the response always came directly from the politician and not a staffer.
I think that along with being ‘out and proud’ as a general thing (easy to say, sometimes much harder to do) what we can do is to encourage each and everyone of us to be an individual and to take matters into our own hands. Write, call or speak to our politicians, both local members and other parliamentarians. Tell them what issues concern us as individuals, and how we feel about current issues being discussed. While they might easily dismiss and/or ignore a few voices any politician who wants to retain the seat they covert will quickly notice when many voices carry the same message. That way we each become our own lobby group without actually falling prey to the fate of an organised group with a set agenda.
A journey starts with a single step. If enough of us add a similar step then we’ll all be carried a long way towards whatever it is we seek.
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Lobbying doesn’t have to be underpinned by a narrow view point , all it needs to have a
group of individuals endeavoring to improve their situation in society or the situation of others. In any case my hope is simply to see us unify and work towards being heard.Nothing to stop individual efforts but representative bodies will always get a hearing over
and above the lone wolf. -
I write this post with hesitation as I do not wish to make myself a target for criticism.
For fairly obvious reasons most of us can’t/won’t stand up to speak/write on behalf of the rest, because I live my chosen gender on a daily basis I don’t have that limitation. I have written here that I am prepared to at least try to be of some sort of help but I don’t pretend to know what I’m doing.
Personally, I believe that informing the general public that we exist & represent all parts of society is the singular most important thing that can be done by us. It’s the big picture, a starting point if you like.
I know that some have very specific views about our rights & laws to protect us but my experience so far is that people don’t even realise we walk amongst them. For most people, we exist in stories or somewhere else, not in the part of the community that they live in.There are two issues that cause me to hesitate in ‘standing up’. One is my own confidence but that’s for me to deal with, the other is what message do ‘we’ want to tell society, thats for everybody to deal with.
It would be extremely arrogant of me to assume that I know what other Tg people feel, think or want but I am prepared to (try) & pass on the message. As for what that entails remains to be seen.Though I waffle on a lot & don’t mind the sound of my own voice, it’s not my voice that matters – I’m relatively comfortable with me & society. I need feedback from ‘everybody’ as to what you think we need to tell greater society. I’m past the stage of chatting about it, lets start really discussing what our message should be. Are you interested?
AA, would it be appropriate to start a thread where people could succinctly state what they would like to tell society?
I guess it would need some rules regarding commenting on others stated opinions within the thread, so that everybody would feel ‘safe’ to express themselves. Maybe the thread could be started with the ‘aspiration’ comments made in the survey?Moderator
Quote:I’ve copied this post into a new thread as suggested to focus on specifically what we feel the message should be. -
I must say that we do have a voice as there is a meeting for Transgender issues next month at Parliament House Adelaide. The details have been on Facebook for the Trans community since the 27th November, you also received an invite Krystyana but haven’t accepted it yet. The discussion is on the 6th February at 6pm and being held by Tammy Franks, a Greens Member of the Legislative Council of South Australia. The discussion, in her own words, is in regards to:
It is time for law reform, it is time to be heard, now is the time to change, and that is what this discussion is all about, how we can make transition easier for individuals to receive better and more comprehensive health care and easier access to gender recognition.
If any one on Facebook would like me to send them the invite, please send me a message either by email of Facebook.
Hope to see more attend this discussion and represent the Transgender community in whole.
Cheers…Karly -
Quote:It is time for law reform, it is time to be heard, now is the time to change, and that is what this discussion is all about, how we can make transition easier for individuals to receive better and more comprehensive health care and easier access to gender recognition.
Karly,
With all respect for the fact that you are prepared to actually front up and participate in what is one of the few opportunities extended to the community to shape their future.I have to be a questioning voice.
Why is it that law reform is always so high on the transgender agenda?
I fail to see how any change in the law will increase the acceptance of a broad spectrum of gender diverse by society, partners and family. I don’t see that the law determines the quality and quantity of gender training received by GPs.
Granted the law may coerce a few into behaving a bit better towards us, but until the majority of the gender diverse can come out of the closet with confidence and be embraced by family and society, can we claim to have made any significant progress?
It is a fact that until society attitudes change we will always be discriminated against, no matter what the letter of the law says.
Am I missing the point here? Is there actually a genuine opportunity to influence the expectations and attitudes of society? If so, please excuse my skepticism.
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In the ‘ladyboys’ thread, Danii posted the following comment:
Quote:All in all I think if people could be maybe introduced to the series, even if they feel uncomfortable about the subject, it would go a long way to easing peoples fear of the unknown.She was suggesting that if greater society viewed the Tg documentary it may benefit them & (as a consequence us as well).
I totally agree.
Reading her comment reminded me that when I worked in a refugee camp, one of the methods we used to teach the refugee students about what to expect in America, was to show them contemporary movies about contemporary problems that they might encounter. As an example, as they were going to Fresno in California (very high refugee population & also high crime statistics) we showed them movies like ‘Boyz in the hood’ amongst others.
The program that I worked within was found to be successful.
Prompted by Dannii, I’m now wondering if any such program exists to teach school students about Tg people & issues.
I know we used to have a class called ‘health’ which touched on sex education but having no children I have no idea if these sort of issues are included in the various school curriculums.Do anyone out there know if these sorts of subjects are taught at school?
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I don’t think law reform is always directly about law as much as legislation that directs funding from various government departments towards what are minorities. This in essence means may early education programs or health education for treating practitioners , mental health services and suited health programs for the group , also matters of interactions between the minorities and the government departments not all of these things are of obvious benefit until you have to experience them failing you.
