So now we as simply “TRANS”!

[Adrian]

I was holding off on making a post summarising the long discussions on TR about labels – because I didn’t want to fuel any more discussions.
But your post makes it clear I need to state the TR position.
You will see from my announcement post in this forum that the use of trans on TR is deprecated – it is a Trans free zone I hope!

[Anonymous]

Amanda’s reminder of how important language is, I feel is very timely.

TRANS is considered derogatory by many, yet it seems to be getting some popularity as a new trendy label encompassing a range of transsexual and transgender identities.

So do we accept it or do something to put forward an alternative view?

I always use ‘Transsexual’ to describe me … ‘sex’ refers to the fact that my biological birth sex does not match my real ‘brain’ gender which is the classic definition of being a transsexual person. Nearly everyone quickly appreciates that it is not about sexual preference.

Let’s get some ideas circulating and see if we can find enough common ground to act.

[Anonymous]

The changing meaning of words and language

TRANS is defined in my Compact Oxford as a “prefix” meaning [/b]1. across or beyond. 2. on or to the other side of. 3.into another state or place

It’s a prefix which requires definition.

TRANS has become almost as offensive as TRANNY. This is just the GBL community forcing THEIR definitions (and insults) onto us

If we ignore these ignorant people long enough, refuse to respond to their inane labels, eventually they’ll go away.

[Anonymous]

hi jade

i think the tribal council has spoken. we abide by that – that’s a condition/privilege of being a tr member.

but, yes, the use of the word “trans”, has developed a little life of its own, despite some considering the word as being derogatory.

interestingly enough, the new zealand human rights commission:

http://www.hrc.co.nz/home/hrc/humanrightsenvironment/actiononthetransgenderinquiry/actiononthetransgenderinquiry.php

uses the word prolifically as a default, without any implication of any derogatory colour.

the word, trans, is also used as a default in in their published findings on its inquiry into discrimination and human rights issues for transgender people (for a full copy in pdf format):

http://www.hrc.co.nz/hrc_new/hrc/cms/files/documents/15-Jan-2008_14-56-48_HRC_Transgender_FINAL.pdf

you’ll note the inclusion of one of our tr members, noeleena from nz, as one of the contributors (you rock, noeleena!). maybe given that the paper was published some time ago (way back in 2008) the currency of the usage of the word in a non-derogatory manner may have dated.

[Anonymous]

Hi Virginia,

Just to be clear I am definitely not advocating the use of this word as a label to replace Transgender.

The real conflict that exists in terminology is that the various groups that come under Transgender are extremely diverse and mix both Gender Identity and Sexuality. Even within forums such as TR there are widely held views. No wonder the public has little understanding and empathy for us.

Please understand that I express my views as a transsexual person and from that perspective.

I suppose my real concern is that the rights of Transsexuals are lost in the broader Transgender and GLB worlds. There are things that are impacting on me personally as a transsexual person that do not impact on individuals from other transgender groups that I would like to see changed. I have been able to fund my transition, however I feel so much for the great number of girls who due to their circumstances are trying to transition with a complete lack of support … **** we live in one of the best countries in the world and we can’t take care of our minorities.

Look at how well the Intersex community has created its own unique brand identity which has taken from under the Transgender umbrella.

I accept that advocacy is not something that many are in a position to openly be involved in. It is the nature of our situation that to to argue for change we have to declare ourselves in public and that bring us into the spotlight for all possible forms of discrimination that we seek to avoid personally but would like to see addressed through legislation and changes in public opinion.

So my posts are to gain an insight into the thoughts of others to help shape my own as i move closer to taking action on a couple of issues that directly impact on me post my SRS in October.

I would love to hear from anyone in support or otherwise at anytime.

Jade

[Anonymous]

hi jade

maybe i was not understood – it happens – i wasn’t saying that you were advocating the use of the word trans. i was merely pointing out that (1) amanda has decided a certain protocol for tr, and (2) both the australia and new zealand human rights commission seem comfortable with using the word trans.

as for active advocacy, well, some will do that actively, and some will seek more subtle ways of making change. i think that both human rights commissions are moving in the right direction, and it is through these types of organisations that we can seek changes without becoming unnecessarily open to public gaze.

i, too, look forward to thoughts, healthy debate and otherwise discourse and discussion about this matter on these very pages.

i wish you all the very best in your journey!

v xo

[Adrian]

For the record, the reasons I have taken a stand against trans on TR are:

a) it has no clear definition and so can be taken to include anyone you want it to. This will have the effect of blurring any distinctions that need to be made when communicating with the general public. (Which I think is the point jade is making)

b) it is grammatically indefensible, and appears just to be a non-word, so devoid of actual meaning that it is certain to offend no-one. (which I believe is the point Christina made)

c) the current use of the word seems to be pushed on the behalf of others by a small vocal minority (the sort of people who make a point of making submissions to bodies like the human rights commission). There is no evidence that our community wants this new label, but that is unlikely to deter the well meaning do-gooders.

d) a significant number of members of the TR community find the term offensive, or do not associate with it.

To me that seems like a good enough reason to keep it out of TR.
From my understanding Jade is asking if people are motivated enough to fight against its adoption in the wider community (correct me if I’ve got that wrong).

[Anonymous]

Amanda, I should get you to edit my posts in future.

Yes I am simply asking if people are motivated enough to fight against its adoption in the wider community.

How we actual take up the fight is another issue for another time.

I also have a personal friend who has been a Human Rights Lawyer in this country for the last 15 years (worked on drafting Anti Discrimination Legislation in one State in the mid 90’s). She is going to have a talk with Kate to find out more about their decision process and what might be the best ways of influencing the HRC on this issue.

We have a window of opportunity to challenge the adoption of this word but it will not stay open for long and changing it down the track will be so much harder.

Thanks

Jade

[Adrian]

Quote:

Look at how well the Intersex community has created its own unique brand identity which has taken from under the Transgender umbrella.

An interesting twist in the debate. When I first heard the term “Trans” being peddled it was only a couple of years ago in a talk by Kathy Noble of http://www.changelingaspects.com. (Do I lead a sheltered life or is this “trans” thing a very recent phenomena in Australia?). The justification I was given then was that we needed an umbrella term that embraced intersex people.

This was one of these loaded claims – if you argue about the need for a new name then you are denying the rights of intersex people. So I shut up!
But as time has passed, I too see that intersex people are making their own identity. And in the extract from the human rights commission we read…

Quote:

Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trans and Intersex

So Trans doesn’t embrace Intersex officially any more…

Is it just me who is confused?
Can some one tell me again, just why do we need trans and what exactly does it mean!

[Anonymous]

It’s probably an Australian thing. You know….the way we drop syllables, consonants or whole words in the typical Aussie pursuit in making the language more efficient…..and unintelligible. It’s only the requirement to have at least one vowel that left us with trans…..otherwise it could be simply ts………..whoops….

[Anonymous]

I have done a little more digging and found that there are groups advocating the use of Intersex, sex and/or Gender Diverse (ISGD). In recognising the potential exclusivity of terms like transsexual and transgender, and aims to promote the term ISGD as an alternative for those who live outside of mainstream, heteronormative or traditional sex/gender binaries.

In their words ISGD folk include: intersex, transsexual, transgender, trans*, genderqueers, butches, femmes, femme fags, fagettes, girlfags, bois, transmen, tranny dykes, tranny boys, gender pirates, boydykes, androgynes, neutois, dandies, flappychaps, fancy gentlemen, gentlefags, drag kings and queens, unicorns, bearded ladies, ladyboys, dandy campers, gender outlaws, girly boys, tomboys, cissies.

Again the only group that has a distinct identity is Intersex.

Personally as a Transsexual person, I am concerned that the adoption of ISGD by the HRC etc will only further undermine our community and its potential to advocate for changes that are specific to us. As for the Cross Dressers well they don’t seem to get a mention except under Transgender or Trans which are umbrella terms anyway!

I acknowledge that many here are unable to be open about themselves due to family, relationships, work etc and having lived similarly. However, unless there is a push back on this debasing of our identities any improvement in public and government acceptance of us and our specific needs will be delayed.

Not sure if it is possible but would love to see if we can collate our views and present them to bodies such as the HRC as a contrary views to what is currently being advocated!

Any suggestions?

[Anonymous]

hi jade

my search skills may be lacking, but i couldn’t find anything on the AHRC site about the potential adoption or suggestion by any group advocating adoption of the ISGD tag. can you give us a pointer?

seems to me that in dealing with the difficulties and confusion associated with the standard labels, there are some others who think that the confusion can be overcome by inventing new labels. i would have thought that we need to just get the concepts across, then develop labels from there. in using this approach, we could simply rely on the more standard labels as a starter.

easy to say, i guess.

imho, i don’t think ARHC will adopt the ISGD tag – it seems to have followed the other international conventions, government and non-government organisations and interest groups (see my other post about the new zealand human rights commission) and is unlikely to follow something which is so far removed from the more conventional labeling systems.

v xo

[Anonymous]

Hi Virginia,

I may be reading between the lines a little too much. However if you look at the original post here which was Kate from the HRC’s email I was primarily questioning the adoption of the term Trans.

I have subsequently reread Kate’s email and it is clear that they are using Intersex, Sex and/or Gender Identity within the web site at a high level in the sites navigation.

This is close to Intersex, Sex and/or Gender Diversity ie ISGD. My last post highlighted that there are collectives now actively advocating the use of ISGD. My concern is that our voice is not being heard in the debate that is currently underway and ultimately we will be further marginalised under an ISGI, ISGD or similar grouping and referred to simply as Trans.

This girl I can assure you believes that this is the worst possible outcome for the Transsexual community and I would also expect for those who cross dressers! We have specific issues relating to identity documents, medical support for transitioning, better mental health support, etc to many of the other groups that fall under the Transgender umbrella and our unique needs will be subjugated by other more organised groups or those with different priorities.

I often wonder if it would be easier to simply complete my transition in October and move forward quietly as the woman I am…its just that there are two issues that stick in my throat. The first one is I am married and we are unwilling to perjure ourselves in the Family Court so therefore I cannot have my birth registration changed; and the second is the need to change society’s attitudes to make it easier for those that follow us in the future – no more suicides!

Ticking off the requirements of the SOC in my transition has been easy compared to almost everything else!

Jade XO

[Anonymous]

I’ve taken a while to reply here because I wanted to have a good read and think about this subject. As somone who in the scheme of things is just really finding their feet and has a long life ahead (I hope) it interests me a lot. I’m leaning towards the idea that the term “Trans” has been used to encompass a group of people, not just Transgender people or Transexual people on their own to name two specific groups.

I can’t pick up as to what groups are placed under this banner as posted in the initial post here so I’m only surmising that they have moved to something which is quick and easy to use. In that light, the only thing that I can really say is that yes, we have to watch these people and keep a close eye on what they are saying and doing to make sure that as things improve (which I believe will) that they improve in the right manner.

Some people do consider this term derogatory I know, me I don’t label myself except to say that I’m Peta but if this term has been placed into use in the manner that it makes things easier for the governments to work with in order to improve laws pertaining to all of us then I don’t see it as a bad thing. If they used it to make it easier to “sweep things under the rug” then yes, I don’t want that to happen just as much as any of you would.

Peta A.