The naivety of transgender thought.

[Anonymous]

Quote:

I would love to believe that everyone would naturally accept my choice but I am far to cynical of human nature to believe that. I know that when I meet people they’re going to be pleasant to my face but I expect a certain amount of derision behind my back.

Exactly. As some know, I have just transitioned at work, and work fulltime as Jessica. Now, everyone has been pleasant and professional enough to my face, but there is a palpable undercurrent of the above that (and I might, admittedly, be overreacting) I am often aware of, and sensitive to.

Quote:

From there I see it as my job and the job of everyone like me to act as a conduit of societal change. An educational purpose now exists in my life to shift the concept of normal gender expression

Like yourself, I therefore see myself as being charged with a very important task; to help spread awareness and assist others in making the same journey, as I am the very first to do it in this company (and with 13000 or so employees, guaranteed there are more!)

HR has been willing to accept my help in drafting guidelines for transitioning employees, which currently do not exist.

I do not consider myself a crusader, or a heroine, merely someone who is willing to stand up and be publicly out to help others who may not be so brave or in such a situation.

I am taking the fight to Navitas, who run the ACAP, where I was recently enrolled, until I was forced to withdraw due to their transphobic enrollment policies, and will be working with ATSAQ to combat this (more details in its own thread).

A nice post for sunday night, and you make me feel a little bit more comfortable facing another day of work as Jess.

[Anonymous]

HI all ,
I think the degree of acceptance is proportional to how femme you look ,how passable you are , no matter how sad that is – as many have said society believes in polarity of the genders and while acceptance increases, the general population dont all embrace someone in between the exyremes
well thats my view of it all
hugs
suzz

[Anonymous]

Hi,

So socity,
that means the mass’s bring it down to the level of those in the street who see you , friends who know you, and family who you share a blood relastionship with ,

so one must look the part to pass or so hidden in your apperance that at the least you look like who your trying to portray, and how femme you look and how passibale you are,

For get the mass’s of socity what about those who see you day to day in the same street as they are doing what ever, and those you work with,

so do i pass or blend in do i look like who i represent or should that be do i dress so im seen as a woman and every one would only see a woman,

doubt it if ever or ever will sure never going to happen and quite frankly i dont give a toss, as for friends they go back to 1958 yes they are real friends,
7 years ago was the start of meeting many 1000’s of people, and to our nation so quess how many and where ever i went people came up to me and said i know you from saw you on Cambell live and Closeup. and interviewed for papers as well. so they all know my story and background.

so i reached the mass’s with in 15 min’s figger out how many people watch two TV Statons in NZ then youll know how many i did reach,

so have i been rejected because i dont look right or pass or blend in or what the hell are you your a misfit nuts mad insane or just plan weird what ever,

how come im a member with in our groups of well over a 1000 members on 3 commitees, play in 3 Brass bands seen in public well known ,and a member of our SCA world wide group and im known aroumd the world in our forums plus our women only forum 2 357 members,

And im ment to look like a normal woman , do i . meet me or see me some where and youd say oh yea another male dresser trying to be a woman or look alike, flipping heck not doing very well gee dont go out any were with me then ill embarrias you .

Just maybe i have an advantage, and im accepted in how i look how im seen and people wont to be around me as a person yes bloody different, and there were no issues when i took meetings and talked to large groups of people,
so maybe just maybe iv missed something seems i dont measure up in some peoples eyes in the how i should look to be this femme person. no one in the real world that im part of are bothered,

Now this polarity of the genders does not work for myself never did and thats from birth, im both and nether,

So maybe iv got around this, dress right or are you male or female thing .

In fact you know what my real friends and the many im involved with have accepted im different loveibale and love haveing this one weird female around them no wonder we get on so well..

oh, now what was this about socity, im a member of that part of , and heck whats the problem ,

…noeleena…

[Adrian]

Quote:

I think the degree of acceptance is proportional to how femme you look ,how passable you are

I don’t think there is any evidence to back the “Pass or Perish” mantra. In fact it is No 3 on my list of Tg Fables (don’t ask – I’ll publish them all one day!). On the contrary I see it as a chain round our necks to sap the confidence of feminine males – setting them a target to “Pass” that is virtually unobtainable (except perhaps in their own eyes).

The proof is that the streets are full of natal females who don’t “pass” if you use the same narrow definition of womanhood beloved of the M->F community. It isn’t a lack of a Barbie Doll image that attracts the attention of the the knockers in society. As a friend put it to me over the weekend, those who openly attack us are cowards – they pick on the weak and vulnerable. Those who present in whatever way they want with confidence tend to avoid open non-acceptance.

My personal experience is that society is superficially far more tolerant of people who present in between the gender extremes. Why? Because if you view the world as Men and Women – someone in the middle doesn’t actually threaten your beliefs. Not a threat in the same way as an obviously natal man who is trying to pass as a natal female. OK, as Kristyana said, after you go they may well whisper about how weird you are…

Passing is a vicious circle. You try to pass, you don’t succeed, it saps your confidence in yourself, some coward calls you out, you blame the lack of passing, and so you descend.

When we stop regarding passing as the gold standard, then society will encounter more people like Kristyana, Noeleena, and myself who stand up in public to be noticed. That, and only that, will change attitudes I feel. So I support Kristyana’s views at the start of this thread.

[Carol]

Hmm. I’ve been going through a bit of a rethink myself recently. There comes a point when a genetic male who has spent 50+ years dreaming of being a real girl comes crashing up against reality. I just watched the doco about Jan Hamilton, UK paratrooper who transitioned at age 42. In one scene Jan cracks up as she realises that after all the surgery all she can hope for is to be a good looking transsexual and that she needs to adjust her expectations to that.
Me, age nearly 66, had a similar wake up call earlier this year. But everybody outside my immediate family has been to my face friendly and positive about the way I present as Carol. So why don’t I just go for it knowing that “it” isn’t fooling anybody But we can all live with it.

[Elizabeth]

Many years ago there was a movie, I think called ‘Blade Runner’ in which there was a robotic surgical laser gadget which very quickly, almost instantly and without pain completely alter one’s face into whatever configeration one desired. Until such a gadget becomes a reality changing one’s facial appearance to conform to the feminine ideal, transgender folk, forget it. There’s always a dead give away however much many like to think they are the dead ringer for a Barbie or other imagined look alike.
I personally know of one or two people who are as close as is possible to the ideal and without prior knowledge are instantly accepted by everyone in the desired gender role that the transsexual id endeavouring to portray.
Those people are in my mind the exception rather than the rule.

To my way of thinking the wraping paper helps but is only part of the presentation package. Eighty percent of that presentation package is in the persona, how the individual presents themselves, a generous smile is a great help, infectious laughter, the sort of person everyone wants to be friends with, in other words others will seek their company, whatever the facial mask is. As has been said previously on many occassions, self acceptance helps.

Do others snigger behind one’s back? of course some do, we have to accept that as part of the package, if it’s not bothering you as the individual, why worry? On the other side of the coin there are some people who genuinely accept us for what we are as individuals. I met one yesterday who I have known for a while, I can tell by intuition, my gut feeling that I was accepted just as I was; we’ve talked before, a lovely and really accepting woman.

Be realistic!

[Anonymous]

I think for all of us we are all stuck on what came first Chicken or Egg Question?

Some of you will the good fortune to pass as female and yes do well in life. for others like myself who inside are female and sadly suffer looking like a Kenworth truck trying to pass as sports car.

It all starts out for most in the bed room early teens as sexual desires, bra panties , skirts swimsuits, for people like myself it all goes back well beyond the teens.
I recall being 5 years of age and wanting to wear a normal 1970s Black leotard girls so badly.
But back then you had to fit the box that was given to you and so I like many passed in life in dragging my heels as male and dabbling in female dress, you kept it all hidden because you seen those who had the guts to go before you had been treated as outcast of society.
In the Early 1980s with the hate gays and all associated because they gave the world aids in full swing, a lot did not come out that decade.
Then thankfully in the 1990s I got to go out and started to be the person I long and desired to be, I knew I never pass or be excepted as female, but your better to do than never do at all.
Passing and having faith in yourself is always a fine dance in razors edge , it only takes one person you know well to say something mean and nasty to make you want to hide again, burn everything and man up again.
But you come to that fork in the road when you know its too late to go back and you build a thick shell and stay who you are. I can say I have few real friends. But at least they are real friends,
Society is always a mix of social life grooming, on the outside shell most will judge us, but its more real to be yourself on the inside so on that I wish all the best on this journey we call life.
Because if we wanted the easy life we all take up sky diving or race car driving that are more socially excepted than being who we are. And some times being CD or TV what ever tag you like to place us is a darn sight more dangerous in real life. Because over the years I seen what did happen to a few friends who came out. most are still here and still being themselves. But its not a path for all.

[Anonymous]

I would agree passing Is dancing on a razors edge as Sasha said, in fact it is like a bed of razors on edge if you slip it’ll cut you to shreds. I am not a fan or the obscure and hidden world it perpetually drives the suffering and leads many people into the dark place found by Jan the paratrooper in the program. It is a dangerous place to be.
Opinion will change as people are exposed to difference, experience and expectations will be developed as people really see gender diversity. Acceptance of the majority will be a reality at some point when enough of them are aware and able to share that awareness and that’s the best one can hope for. None of us will like everyone or everything and that will always lead to some issues as it does in the reality of everyone.

As I said at the start whatever happens I need to add to the efforts to make a difference for with the knowledge I have gained if I make no efforts the process stands still, the next person has to learn the same lessons before they may move forward. I am no guru on social behavior but if you reach a certain level of acceptance it will self sustain on the basis that visible representation will always appear . As we stand as a community we are still a long way from that and without effort gains will slip back then you have to make that up before you move forward. I know not all have the capacity to do such for maybe they are constrained by the very social structure that needs to change but support for those who do will lift a great weight for all. Many hands make light a heavy load.

Hope I contained myself in my own thread lol I do go on!
Pass as your self not the construct of other as you see it, it is far more embarrassing and dangerous to be found out than to be SEEN.

[Anonymous]

I remember on a few occasions family members or people I worked with giving the comment:

“He is a bit of a woman isn’t he”

I think they were seeing a transgendered personality.

They were a little critical but still accepting that it was just how that person was.

Just a thought
Vicki

[Jennifer_1]

I hope I am getting off topic but I have a few thoughts this thread stirred up.

How many actresses look alike these days, how many young girls try to copy a body style or look that has been dictated by the media and marketing people? Is it possible that we are falling into the same trap.

I am currently in Phuket having just completed the last phase of my GRS and yesterday I enquired about seeing a surgeon about FFS while I am here, in particular my nose, it’s big. Shortly after arranging to see the Doctor my Daughter rang me. I said about enquiring about FFS and my Daughter’s response was, “but you wouldn’t be you”.

It made me stop and remember that I am Jennifer, I’m not particularly male or female, I have a great circle of friends who accept me as Jennifer.The surgery I have just been through was to make me feel more comfortable with myself. FFS would be for everyone else.

I have never felt that Jennifer needs to fit anywhere in particular on any spectrum, that she must pass some feminity test, be fully accepted by everyone or have a label that says trans….whatever.

I am Jennifer.

[Anonymous]

As the post originator I see that follows the line well .
It is a fact that the social pressures to conform to some ideal are constantly there in the media. We as a non conforming group of people still require acceptance and without the support of people around us are driven to seek that acceptance from stangers. That is a major vulnerability that causes immense problems for we then seek to fit a social ideal to get what we require and fit into society.
It’s not all an internal struggle as everyone eventually finds out. When you are ok with yourself it’s easy forget in the happiness you feel that there’s an entire world that has no concept of the struggle it took.
Ever since I have accepted myself it has been a constant drain knowing that I have to educate those around me in order that I not be an outsider. That drain is something that I believe drives the need for people to conform to the ideal and forget the Impossibly of achieving that ideal. Of course then when you’re trying so hard to do it right being rejected becomes all the more powerfully damaging.
Either way its a battle but the idea of education over conforming for me is the key to futures success of the gender diverse community and the people who are part of it.