TgR Forums

Find answers, ask questions, and connect with our
community around the world.

TgR Wall Forums Media-Watch Film & Theatre Top ten transformations – some refelctions and digressions

  • Top ten transformations – some refelctions and digressions

    Posted by Anonymous on 16/12/2015 at 3:25 pm

    Just wanted to share some thoughts about some recent articles in The Guardian. The original article was “The 10 best actor transformation”

    http://www.theguardian.com/culture/2015/nov/27/10-best-actor-transformations

    Which really wasn’t that interesting as the actor transformations where very conservative:

    Number 1 – Johnny Depp in Black Mass

    Number 2 – Robert Di Niro in Raging Bull

    What followed was the readers choice “Readers suggest the 10 best actor transformations”

    http://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/dec/03/readers-suggest-the-10-best-actor-transformations

    and at the top of their list is wait for it drums roll…… :

    Alex Guinness in Kind Hearts and Coronets with a picture of him as Lady Agatha D’Asconyne (yes it is the same Alex Guinness of Star Wars fame)

    then at number 6 is:

    Robyn Williams in Mrs Doutfire this entry had the comment from a reader “If anything, an even more credible bit of cross-dressing [than Dustin Hoffman in Tootsie],”. I disagree and feel that Tootsie was the much better crossdressing film and has a much better conclusion that is supportive of transgender.

    But then it would be unfair if Dustin Hoffman got all the limelight because he comes in at number 9 for “Little Big Man” Hoffman is here for his age transformation not crossdressing but “Little Big Man” is a significant transgender film because of the characters “Little Horse” and Caroline.

    Caroline is the sister to the character “Little Big Man” played by Dustin Hoffman, and she takes on a masculine role and wears male clothes through out the film; in a sense to compensate for her ineffectual drunken father and Little Big Man’s lose to her family when he is taken into a Cheyenne tribe. It is while being adopted by the Cheyenne that Little Big Man meets Little Horse a two spirit or Heemaneh.

    Summer Banks better explains this concept in his article “Little Big Man (and Woman and)”. It should be noted that Banks is writing about the book Little Big Man written by Thomas Berger on which the film is based.

    “Little Big Man is kidnapped as a child and raised by an Cheyenne tribe. One of the other children in the tribe is called Little Horse. This child seems like a boy to Little Big Man, but eventually he finds out that Little Horse has become a heemaneh, the Cheyenne word for a third gender role in their tribes. Heemaneh had male biological characteristics but performed female tasks and often additional tasks involving music or spirituality. Translating the term into contemporary jargon we would probably say transgender, but that is problematic.”

    I feel I need to pause here because this post started off as a little bit of fun at The Guardian expense because their readers have in my view a much better sense of “Transformation” a more open fluid one. It also allowed me to bring attention to Little Big Man the film which influenced me when I growing up. After watching the film I also read the book. But in doing a quick internet search to make sure I got my Cheyenne terminology correct I found the above article by Summer Banks.

    https://happymediumrare.wordpress.com/2015/10/15/little-big-man-and-woman-and/

    The article concludes:

    “Thomas Berger wrote Little Big Man over 50 years ago, but his insights still ring true. A modern society that cannot accept more than two strictly-defined gender roles is crippling itself at the core. The inherent contradiction between the Western doctrine of individualism and the simultaneous expectation to conform to a binary gender role stifles both diversity and self-realization. And yes, we’ve come along way due to the recognition of same-sex marriages (thereby loosening the grip of heterosexuality on gender definition) and increasing legal protections for transgender people. But in our hurry to clap ourselves on the back, we risk forgetting about the real goal: Acceptance and celebration of an individual’s gender identity and expression, no matter how fluid or traditional.”

    WOW this is great stuff. I think the whole article is worth a read, I could not see a publish date but it is very contemporary and mentions Caitlyn Jenner in passing.

    But who is Summer Banks a cut and paste from the website:

    About

    commentary on art, social phenomena and other nonsense from Berlin-based writer and performer Summer Banks. also @SummerBanksy.

    On reading that I want to ask does Banksy spend his summers in Berlin. The above enigmatic comment would fit. Banksy is an English graffiti/street performance/event artist who has kept his identity hidden. Maybe I am reading a subtext here that my not be there but I felt I should let people know that everything may not be as it seems.

    I have digressed twice.

    Another interesting review of the film Little Big Man can be read at Queering the closet:

    http://queeringthecloset.blogspot.com/2013/07/queer-review-little-big-man-1970.html

    I hope this hasn’t become too confusing. One voice inside me says I should apologise if it has, but another voice say no don’t after all every time I put on a dress things can so easily become confusing and I suspect that it is not only true for me it is the nature of these things.

    So to return to the movies and maybe not a movie with the best transformation but one of the most enjoyable “Some Like it Hot” and Osgood Fielding words at the end of the film when his fiancee Daphne removes her wig and revels herself to be Jerry in her last ditch attempt to persuade Osgood that they cannot get married Daphne shouts “I am a man” to which Osgood say “Well, nobody is perfect.”

    Anonymous replied 9 years, 1 month ago 2 Members · 6 Replies
  • 6 Replies
  • Angela_Morgan

    Member
    17/12/2015 at 6:42 am

    Thank you Sara for sharing some interesting insights.

    Your reflections and digressions weren’t at all confusing to me but helped further my understanding of where we all fit on the transgender spectrum.

  • Deleted User

    Deleted User
    17/12/2015 at 8:02 am

    What a great memory kick start. I agree, Tootsie was the much better movie. I saw an interview with Hoffmann and he explained how important it was to him to make sure the character was believable. Not the usual movie where anyone and their dog could see it was a man in a dress but he wanted Tootsie to be believable. He met people he knew and ‘chatted them up’ without them realising who he was.
    The hardest part was his voice, he couldn’t get it right until one day while in the shower he started talking with that Southern Lilt and realised he had it. I believe there was a book on the making of the movie which I imagine would be a great read.
    ‘Little Big Man’ was one of the great movies from that time. Sadly I haven’t read the book, I think I will have to hunt for it. Chief Dan George played the chief in the film with such great dignity and humour. In case you’re wondering I became very interested in the native Americans after seeing a movie called Soldier Blue and learning how much of the information we had been given by Holywood was just so wrong.
    The division of the gender role was so fluid among them, as Sara points out and all were respected and had their place in their society.

  • Anonymous

    Guest
    17/12/2015 at 1:38 pm
    Angela_Morgan wrote:
    but helped further my understanding of where we all fit on the transgender spectrum.

    Thank you Angela.

    The “Little Big Man (and Woman and)” article has a number of links in it one of them is to a youtube video called “Two Spirit People”. The comments of contemporary native American people engaging there traditions is very insightful and may interest you. They speak with some beautiful clarity that comes from their life experience. One interesting points that is made is the limitations in english to give an accurate expression of feelings and experiences. There is much more it is very rich in understanding.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JcmAoderl4&feature=youtu.be

    There are some short inserts from the movie “Little Big Man” in this video.

  • Anonymous

    Guest
    18/12/2015 at 2:29 pm

    This is an interesting insight into an alternative view of gender. I particularly liked the concept of a circle of gender roles with infinite points along it, rather than a polarized ” stick” with only two ends.
    I think though that it is important to remember that in a warrior society where males with a degree of machismo were expected to fight and hunt in order for the tribe to survive, a ” commitment” to a role and the training for dangerous action, required choices to be made early in life. I also think that it points clearly to my assertion that ” man and woman” are social constructs rather than innate entities. It was the gender roles that children chose rather than a sexuality issue that underpinned a ” berdache” lifestyle.

    It is also appears that the roles that were chosen were fixed and that gender role fluidity was not available ,though I do not know enough to make this my opinion.

  • Anonymous

    Guest
    22/12/2015 at 7:32 am
    ClaireStafford wrote:
    ‘Little Big Man’ was one of the great movies from that time. Sadly I haven’t read the book, I think I will have to hunt for it. Chief Dan George played the chief in the film with such great dignity and humour. In case you’re wondering I became very interested in the native Americans after seeing a movie called Soldier Blue and learning how much of the information we had been given by Holywood was just so wrong.
    The division of the gender role was so fluid among them, as Sara points out and all were respected and had their place in their society.

    The “Little Big Man (and Women and)” article has a link to this preview of a PBS Independent Lens documentary “Two Spirits”. This clip focuses on the Navajo traditions.

    https://youtu.be/CZDx9JQUGB0

    Unfortunately I cannot find the full documentary.

    The documentary did have its own website which has three further short clips.

    http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/films/two-spirits/

  • Anonymous

    Guest
    28/12/2015 at 1:03 pm
    Christina wrote:
    I think though that it is important to remember that in a warrior society where males with a degree of machismo were expected to fight and hunt in order for the tribe to survive,

    It is also appears that the roles that were chosen were fixed and that gender role fluidity was not available ,though I do not know enough to make this my opinion.

    I agree that it is important to be aware of the context of tribal societies. The original article comments on this:

    “There’s a long tradition of romanticizing “native” cultures and I don’t want to fall into that with regard to these roles — yes, the roles were still limited, restrictive and not always respected — but I think there is something to learn from a different approach to the relationship between biological sex and gender role performed.”

    One of the videos that are linked from the article focuses on how contemporary Indian people are seeking to re-engage the two spirit traditions. I liked the communal aspect of what they were seeking to do.

    https://youtu.be/pY21Iirhp5o