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transvestic fetishism
yep – i’ll be the first to put my hand up if anyone asked the question, *should you not rely on the data contained in wikipedia?*. but here is some interesting stuff i found (as you do on a monday morning).
if sexuality is about how we (as people) respond to erotic stimulus and express our sexual being, then this wikipedia article certainly falls within the gender and sexuality section of the tranny radio forum:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transvestic_fetishism
Quote:Transvestic fetishism is having a sexual or erotic interest in cross-dressing. It differs from cross-dressing for entertainment or other purposes that do not involve sexual arousal and is categorized as a paraphilia in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of the American Psychiatric Association. (Sexual arousal in response to donning sex-typical clothing is homeovestism.)[edit] Description
Transvestic fetishism refers specifically to cross-dressing; sexual arousal in response to individual garments is fetishism.[1] Occurrence of transvestic fetishism is uncorrelated to occurrence of gender identity disorder[1]. A person with gender identity disorder may or may not choose to receive sex reassignment surgery. Most men who have transvestic fetishism do not have a problem with their assigned sex.
Some male transvestic fetishists collect women’s clothing, e.g. nightgowns, babydolls, slips, and other types of nightwear, lingerie, stockings, pantyhose, shoes, and boots, items of a distinct feminine look and feel. They may dress in these feminine garments and take photographs of themselves while living out their secret fantasies.
According to the DSM-IV, this fetishism has been described only in men and, more specifically, only in men sexually attracted to women (i.e., otherwise straight or bisexual men).[1]
There are two key criteria before a psychiatric diagnosis of “transvestic fetishism” is made:[1]
1. Recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, urges, or behaviour, involving cross-dressing.
2. This causes clinically significant distress or impairment, whether socially, at work, or elsewhere.Thus, transvestic fetishism is not diagnosed unless it causes significant problems for the person concerned.
[edit] References
1. ^ a b c d American Psychiatric Association. (2000). Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (4th ed., text rev.). Washington, DC: Author.
the article in wkipedia on paraphilia is kind of interesting too.
and gosh, you learn something new everyday, don’t you? i hadn’t previously encountered … *homeovestism* – the arousal of a person by wearing clothing appropriate to his or her gender. i can’t say i can relate to that one!
thoughts on this, anyone, especially the statement *Occurrence of transvestic fetishism is uncorrelated to occurrence of gender identity disorder*?
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22 Replies
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Quote:thoughts on this, anyone, especially the statement *Occurrence of transvestic fetishism is uncorrelated to occurrence of gender identity disorder*?Hey – I wish I could get intellectually engaged like that on Monday morning! What do you have for breakfast V?
But more seriously…I disagree. I think the statement should have read
“Occurrence of transvestic fetishism is not necessarily related to occurrence of gender identity disorder”.I have always argued for the admission of people who associate with transvestic fetishism (though they would never use that term!) to Trannyradio.
Why? Because I believe the discovery of a gender identity issue can often first manifest in a sexual context. It certainly did for me when I was 18.Building a wall between fetish crossdressers and transgenders is a dangerous thing.
Although an individual’s Transgender journey may appear to start in a fetish, that doesn’t mean they should have to leap some sort of hurdle to join the land of the “real transgenders”.Our journey is hard enough without self inflicted barriers.
That’s my Monday afternoon thought!
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I agree Amanda, I think that many TG folk find the crossdressing component of their lives an enjoyable sexual experience. This can often begin as a youth ( can girls be youths?) anyway, then as we age , the sexual component can wane .
The whole fetishism area is fraught with the danger of misinterpretation ( it is for some, in the ICKY area of life) and so many folk will not admit to it for this reason. If we could accept it just as a variation of human sexuality then the anxiety that people feel would be much less. I think most people have some degree of fetish , its just that a nudey magazine is more acceptable than a dress catalogue.
I agree that TR should remain a broad church for the those of the TG ilk
I think also that many people don’t realize that Transvestism is only seen as a mental illness ( in the DSM) only if it causes you distress , if you enjoy it then you are fine! -
I think there will be few if any dissenters on this one. Like Amanda I passed through the tranvestic fetishism (TF) phase, I suffered years of guilt until I realised that it was a symptom not the disease. As soon as I recognised my transgenderedness (?) guilt and discomfort went out the window.
And of course those who indulge in TF should be part of TR, whether it is a stage of their progress or whether it is the be all and end all of their gender experience. If not, what next? Separate websites for part time, full time, hormones, no hormones, non op, pre-op post-op?
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Ok then Virginia, now that it’s Tuesday morning I can take in this post and digest it LOL.
I can relate to that transvestic fetishism term, having been there myself in younger years. Until early 2008, when I finally decided that it was time to get out in public once and for all( thus resulting in my going to the Rocky Horror Show (coming out to the TR community) as well as some other things that I did on my own a little earlier) I was suffering from TF.
A big statement to make but it is the truth, since realising my true feelings and since going further down the road, I have not even thought about any bedroom activity at all and that is 100% honest truth. During my teenage years and so on I was always “getting off” while dressing but because I never sought any counciling about it and put it down to post-pubesant feelings instead, I never realised who I really was. Now I understand why I was so frustrated even in everyday life matters for so long, the change in me is phenomenal, none of you would believe the difference.
I didn’t join TR while I felt like this, I had already stopped behaving that way when I joined up here but I could understand why someone who felt this way would consider joining though. My question is “would it matter if they did as long as they kept that part of their life at home in their bedroom?” If they participated in the community as a good person I don’t think it would matter but to push the envelope outside their own life would result in a totally different scenario to say the least.
I know my answer might sound a bit graphic/scary but is the truth and this is a gender and sexuality thread anyway so….. Also, I’m not trying to change the direction of the thread with my question at the end but just offering it as a point of view, nothing more (alright Amanda?).
A good post Virginia and thank you. Even now I feel much better for responding in this way, I have always been truthful here and you have helped me in a way that you wouldn’t believe by posting this thread. It is really great to clear the air as they say and I am glad that I took this opportunity.
Peta A (growing stronger by the day).
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Hi Amanda, Uncorrelated actually means ‘can’t find a relationship between’.
In other words if all girls who identified as having GID didn’t get some type of erotic component sometime in their crossdressing then there WOULD be a correlation ! So what they are really saying is that some GID girls did get an erotic compnent while others didn’t, hence no correlation. (uncorrelated).Puts thankfully book on resarch methods back on the shelf..
Gwen -
I’ve got to ditto Amanda and Christina’s sentiments, we’re surely about diversity rather than narrowmindedness (you may need to edit your dictionary for that word;)) accepting every variation of our transgender commumity is what I’ll preach til the day I stop wearing heels (hopefully that’s when I’m in a nice pink cardboard box or a wooden one if money permits)
I can remember in my early 20’s feeling a sense of relief when I dressed that was almost equivalent to the feeling after an orgasm, so the distress was caused by not dressing, not BEING a cross dresser…. does that make me normal, because I have mixed feelings if it does.
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mmm yes well I do really think its from the point of view that we look at it from.
For me when I first started I had no idea what it ment. I just felt happy within myself to be dressed. being young with male hormones kicking in this would translate into sexual feeling, but then once realality kicked back in the guilt was great. I would always hide these feelings to myself for many years for fear of not fitting what the world wanted me to be.
I always see this as me trying to find my self not a sexual fetish. As i learnt more about myself it would change to just wanting to be dressed to have the feeling of finding the happyness not sexual arousal, but would sometimes end in that.
So the experts say you did it for sexual pourpses, for my point of view it was part of the journey trying to find out where it all fitted. Long term I did not get any sexual enjoyment in dressing, but in the bed room been the male me made me lose interest as I hated my male side so much, just a girl with my girl. Again I dont see this as a fetish, just a screwed up person needing to transition.
xxx
Kelly Jones
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Saw the title and only thought that came too mind was BDSM ,Fetishe cloths whips and chains ..lol sorry !!!!
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having been diagnosed as gender dysphoria and as such not aroused by the wearing of fem items of clothing i think it is very appropriate that the distinction is made. I myself see myself as a woman, and not as someone with a fetish, or sexual deviation of some type!
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Quote:having been diagnosed as gender dysphoria and as such not aroused by the wearing of fem items of clothing
The implication here being that someone with gender dysphoria cannot be aroused by the wearing of female clothes at any stage in their life?
If so that would be a sweeping statement worthy of some research to confirm it. Wouldn’t the COGIATI test (which does have a question on clothing) just use the answer to one question to sort out the fetishists from the transgenders?
On the other hand, if it were not true, even for some small percentage of the population, is it appropriate to make the distinctions exclusive. This I believe was Virginia’s original question.
And to make things more complex – if we subscribe to the view that gender dysphoria is an issue concerning gender and not sexuality;
and that the two dimensions are basically unrelated.
Then why can’t we have people with gender dysphoria (on the gender axis), who are also sexual deviants (on the sexual axis).
Now we are starting to pry into people bedrooms and closets! -
As is oft stated, membership of TR is from a broad church with a varied theology. By definition gender dysphoria is a discomfort with one’s physiological (or assigned) gender.
That a person may initially express, or identify their dysphoria through sexual arousal misses the point. The arousal does not satisfy over the long term. There is a need to express one’s gender openly (even for those who remain closeted – doing housework, etc.; to be accepted, even temporarily, as of the desired gender by the community at large – shopping, socialising.
Of course it’s exciting when one first begins to dress; releasing many suppressed, or even repressed emotions, and that excitement is often expressed as arousal. But is the arousal satisfying, or what’s wanted. And some of us just don’t have the libido (or testosterone levels) for our excitement to be expressed in this way. Other’s have been expressing their desired gender since childhood, so when finally dressing as adults, it’s comfortable rather than exciting.
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And another point that springs to my mind. Do “straight” women or men never enjoy the pleasure of their appearance; whether alone or with someone else? It seems to me that if we never got some form of pleasure out of our lives then we would truly be “abnormal”.
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I’ve got no problem with fetishists of any ilk (well, there’s probably a few…). Consenting adults and all that.
For myself, I used to fit that category definitely and agree with what others here have said about it being part of my journey. For some I guess it IS there journey. Again, got no problem with that at all.
For me now, I do get some arousel form presenting as me – it’s about feeling attractive, accepted and acceptable as the real me. When I feel like that and I’m with my lover.. well…. you can guess the rest. My sexuality is a part of my life and I consider it to be a healthy part at that! Same would go for many straight people too
cheers
Sarah -
I find that as I get older and hear what so many ” normal” people get turned on by , I realize that I am far more inside the bell curve than I ever realized!!
As there is no existing perfect specimen of humanity to be compared to , I think that we all mere variations on the human animal.As my anthropologist friend says ” humans are perverse”!
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Quote:Quote:having been diagnosed as gender dysphoria and as such not aroused by the wearing of fem items of clothing
The implication here being that someone with gender dysphoria cannot be aroused by the wearing of female clothes at any stage in their life?
If so that would be a sweeping statement worthy of some research to confirm it. Wouldn’t the COGIATI test (which does have a question on clothing) just use the answer to one question to sort out the fetishists from the transgenders?
My understanding is that there are 4 types of TransGender people:
Cross Dressers (CDs)
Transvestites (TVs)
TransSexuals (TSs)
Drag Queens (DQs)My understand differs slightly from Wikipedia, but I also know that Wikipedia is not always right as it is build by people like me, no formal training on the subject, but have been researching the issues for some time… So the definition I live by (my definition?) is as follows (specifically described here in M2F context as that is less confusing – apply with genders swapped for F2M):
DQs – someone who dresses female for work (entertainment), and is not gender dysphoric. ie someone who works as a female impersonator.
CDs – someone who is male, is not gender dsyphoric and enjoys dressing as a female, partying as a female, and being as ‘passable’ as possible (ie a true female impersonator that does it because they want to not specifically for work).
TVs – someone who is male and dresses as a female to derive sexual pleasure (eg to ‘get off’ or to ‘pickup men’). Can be gender dysphoric or not, will sometimes go to the lengths of getting hormones or surgery to complete their pleasure – even if not gender dysphoric.
TSs – someone who is gender dysphoric, may get sexual pleasure from dressing, but this is more a side effect of being happy in themselves rather than dressing for the bedroom. These people will pursue surgery (whether they get there or not is irrelevant, as they will be ‘completed’ by living their lives as a woman.)
Then of course the last term ‘TG’ aka ‘TransGender’ which was a term specifically created to cover the terms DQ, CD, TV and TS under a single term.
There are various publications follow the same terminology described above, and others follow the Wikipedia view that CDs derive sexual pleasure from dressing and TVs are ‘female impersonators’ where their desire it to be as convincing as possible, with no sexual pleasure involved. Considering I have never seen any F2M described as a TV, but I have seen plenty of F2Ms described as TS and CD, I would suspect that Wikipedia is wrong in general use, but I am neither an authority nor an expert on the subject, I’m a happy TS who as once or twice been aroused by dressing in some clothes, but this is more the type of clothes rather than the fact of dressing in female clothes. It also has (in my case) a lot to do with roleplay and experimenting, BDSM can fun…
Back to the original post by V, I think this definition (which is the UK and Australian definition, at least talking to doctors on the subject) covers the Transvestic fetishism as a reference to TransVestites.. Which baring in mind the similarity of the terms it could be someone with “my definition” creating new articles on Wikipedia to override the “TransGender” articles….
Take care and be happy girls,
Shells
