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Wagner
I posted this in another forum, in case anyone missed it I thought it worth repeating.
A bit of juicy gossip, albeit a few years late, (1877). According to today’s Melbourne newspaper, The Age via The Guardian. The famous composer Richard Wagner was possibly a cross dresser. A letter published for the first time in the inaugural edition of The Wagner Journal details the cut of a dress ‘intended for his wife, Cosima’. (Yeah, right!) Where have we heard that one before?
he entire article can be found at the following link.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/germany/article/0,,2023849,00.html#article_continueQuote: – Requesting “something graceful for evenings at home” he continues: “The bodice will have a high collar, with a lace jabot and ribbons; close-fitting sleeves; the dress trimmed with puffed flounces – of the same satin material – no basque at the front (the dress must be very wide and have a train) but a rich bustle with a bow at the back, like the one at the front) …”
Rumours about his proclivities circulated during his lifetime. His disciple, Hans von Wolzogen, who published a guide to the Leitmotifs in the Ring, recalled that Wagner had once appeared dressed in a lady’s jacket. Another anecdote recounted that Wagner had escaped from his creditors in Vienna in 1864 dressed in women’s clothes.
A meticulous diarist, Cosima never mentioned the arrival of these items in her daily journal entries, “fuelling speculation that Wagner may in fact have ordered the dresses for himself,” according to Stewart Spencer, writing in the Wagner Journal. -
14 Replies
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this is quite interesting news. in fact i am sure that when the germanic royal families intermingled with the british royal families (e.g. lord mountbatten, the queen’s uncle), parts of the german language migrated into the english idoim. in fact i suspect that this is where the saying *on the wagon*comes from … they truncated the “-er”because they wanted to say it fast so as to not dwell on the thought too long. i could be wrong, though …
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Quote:in fact i suspect that this is where the saying *on the wagon*comes from … they truncated the “-er”because they wanted to say it fast so as to not dwell on the thought too long. .
This is fascinating, I love stuff like that, although in fact it has nothing to do with the Wagner or the royal family. I googled the phrase and came up with this. Although I’m not sure if this string is relevant to Wagner or cross dressing, but read on anyway.
A young American wrote, ‘My teacher says it was during the temperance movement when men would parade around town on a wagon to show they’ve conquered their demons’.
Since the Salvation Army is very keen on temperance, it isn’t surprising that the phrase has several times been attributed to them. An American Sally Army Web site says firmly that: “Former National Commander Evangeline Booth — founder William Booth’s daughter — drove a hay wagon through the streets of New York to encourage alcoholics on board for a ride back to The Salvation Army. Hence, alcoholics in recovery were said to be ‘on the wagon’â€. The source seems impeccable, but the Sally Army is, alas, perpetrating another version of the same folk etymology.
However, the saying is indeed originally American and it is associated with wagons, of a sort. The original form, which dates from the early years of the twentieth century, was to be on the water-wagon, implying that the speaker was drinking water rather than alcohol and so was an abstainer, at least for the time being. The image of the horse-drawn water-wagon would have been an obvious one at the time — it was used to spray unpaved American streets in the dry summer months to dampen down dust thrown up by the traffic. -
Quote:this is quite interesting news. in fact i am sure that when the germanic royal families intermingled with the british royal families (e.g. lord mountbatten, the queen’s uncle), parts of the german language migrated into the english idoim. in fact i suspect that this is where the saying *on the wagon*comes from … they truncated the “-er”because they wanted to say it fast so as to not dwell on the thought too long. i could be wrong, though …
The Royals are that inbred that it is a very convoluted family tree. You can find the Mountbatten’s (or to give them their original name, the Battenburgs, changed due to the wacky antics of naughty old Kaiser Willhelm – another British Royal family rellie – and the very pro anti-germanic feeling that pervaded Britain and most of Europe at the time) on practically every ancestral lineage you care to look at. The British Royal family has had several acknowledged crossdressers in their ranks over the years which from my point of view is their only redeeming feature.
I wonder what Princess Edward wears around the Palace at night???
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Quote:The British Royal family has had several acknowledged crossdressers in their ranks over the years which from my point of view is their only redeeming feature
I wonder what Princess Edward wears around the Palace at night???Diana’s wedding dress! The reason the royals had her killed in Paris. Diana knew about Edward’s propensity and loaned him all her clothes, she, Dodi and his dad were going to blackmail the royals into going back to Harrods using photos of Edward taken at public functions where he actually stood in for her! He stood in for Fergie as well, ( it wasn’t her that was toe sucking).
Look at the early pics of a poor shy girl, then look at some of the later ones, bright, vivacious, too much make-up, obviously to mask prosthetics. Obviously Edward, he would be used to public appearances, knowing he was protected by MI 6 (Mincing Impersonaters)
Hang on Watson!!! The body in the tunnel, wasn’t Diana at all, it was Edward! Oops, do you think I’ve gone too far? -
Quote:Quote:The British Royal family has had several acknowledged crossdressers in their ranks over the years which from my point of view is their only redeeming feature
I wonder what Princess Edward wears around the Palace at night???Diana’s wedding dress! The reason the royals had her killed in Paris. Diana knew about Edward’s propensity and loaned him all her clothes, she, Dodi and his dad were going to blackmail the royals into going back to Harrods using photos of Edward taken at public functions where he actually stood in for her! He stood in for Fergie as well, ( it wasn’t her that was toe sucking).
Look at the early pics of a poor shy girl, then look at some of the later ones, bright, vivacious, too much make-up, obviously to mask prosthetics. Obviously Edward, he would be used to public appearances, knowing he was protected by MI 6 (Mincing Impersonaters)
Hang on Watson!!! The body in the tunnel, wasn’t Diana at all, it was Edward! Oops, do you think I’ve gone too far?…..therefore, ergo, and to wit; does this mean, Helen, that for the past 7 or 8 years it has really been DIANA who has carried on the crossdressing preoccupation of the Windsors by going fem-to-male and impersonating EDWARD in a sham (or completely legitimate I always keep an open mind) lesbian marriage to the Princess SOPHIE???
To tell the truth the highly suss masculine features of the Princess Royal (Anne) have always worried me too – I note with interest that Prince Phillip is never ever seen at the same time as his ‘supposed’ daughter!Kind Regards,
Det. Supt Emma Thorne
Tranny Squad….noting also with interest how a nice little piece on the suspected crossdressing habits of a germanic composer have quickly drilled into an attack on the House of Windsor. There should be more of it
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Quote:…..therefore, ergo, and to wit; does this mean, Helen, that for the past 7 or 8 years it has really been DIANA who has carried on the crossdressing preoccupation of the Windsors by going fem-to-male and impersonating EDWARD in a sham (or completely legitimate I always keep an open mind) lesbian marriage to the Princess SOPHIE???
To tell the truth the highly suss masculine features of the Princess Royal (Anne) have always worried me too – I note with interest that Prince Phillip is never ever seen at the same time as his ‘supposed’ daughter!
Actually, that’s just silly……………………………….Anne is much shorter than Phillip!
But as for the rest of it! Almost but not quite, (as I was telling Watson, Lestrade, your workmanlike powers of deduction never cease to amaze me).
Sophie is a man as well, the illegitimate son, seed of a tryst between Charles and Camilla before Diana came along. Obviously he could never inherit or be in line so to keep him quiet they offered him a position with the royals, didn’t tell him what the postion was though. As a maidservant to Fergie. -
On my first visit to Ireland we were there in summer and as you can imagine, it was crowded with tourists. Subsequently, while approaching WestCork we decided, due to the traffic, to give Limerick and the famous Castle there, a wide birth. We saw the ring of Beara? instead, very nice, and the hillsheep were cute, but I digress. Owing to this decision I missed out on the disgusting experience of kissing that big rock that they talk about.
From the preceding few posts you two have obviously had the pleasure that I missed out on!!! -
I think you can probably put it down to having far too much spare time; reading far too many books; and having drunk far too much alcohol hun.
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Wah,
Emma and Helen, if all you can direct your energies to is vilifying the Royal Family, that is sad.
They have flawes, haven’t we all.
I, and millions, think Diana was an exceptional human being…and to suggested, Helen “That is why the royals had her killed,’ is outrageous.
To attack the Mountbattens is so wrong. Earl Mountbatten fought with distinction in the Royal Navy during the last war.
Also the Queen’s second son Andrew showed absolute heroism during the Falklands campaign. He, along with others, flew a helicoper off the side of the supply and troop carriers to decoy Argentinian missiles.
Please, do us all a favour girlfriends, if you have enough energy to vent your frustrations, aim them at someone or people who have the opportunity to defend themselves.
LOL Amberr
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Funy bone transplant needed girls? Come on, haven’t you heard of satire? In case you missed the point, I was taking the mickey out of the conspiracy theorists.
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Kissed it? Sometimes I think I ate it!!!
HelenQuote:On my first visit to Ireland, we decided, due to the traffic, to give Limerick a wide birth. Owing to this decision I missed out on the disgusting experience of kissing that big rock that they talk about.
From the preceding few posts you two have obviously had the pleasure that I missed out on!!! -
Quote:I think you can probably put it down to having far too much spare time; reading far too many books; and having drunk far too much alcohol hun.
Probably right there, being on work cover leave I do have too much spare time, (and it’s driving me crazy!!! I do read a lot and Guiness is nice, (but not to access)
Chers,
Helen. -
this baby is just not going to grow old gracefully and die … if you buy a copy of today’s sydney morning herald (and i must say it is generally a pretty good read – guaranteed to keep a saturday afternoon fairly well occupied), you get a free cd by the sydney symphony.
now you may not be big on classical, but being an avid tranny radio citizen, and follower of the fascinating wagner blog, you may feel a connection. the opening track on the cd just happens to be composed by none other than … tah-dah … wagner! it is a piece that he wrote to wake his wife on her birthday. now how romantic can you get? i guess not everyone is married to a rumoured to be cross dressing classical music composer, so that makes it all the more rare.
it’s a lovely, romantic piece (as you would expect). it is called siegfried idyll, and for those that think that this is really a reference to the old german beer hall form of entertainment involving talent quests where amateurs sing along to an orchestra in front of three judges, or german idol, i have to tell you that this was not the case. recently discovered diaries and letters reveal that he actually wanted to name this piece “honig, sind sie ich können nicht ihr rotes unterhemd haben sicher?” which roughly translates to “honey, can’t i please have your red camisole?”
some researchers think there could be some doubt about the authenticity of these letters and diaries, but it does make you think, doesn’t it?
hugs,
voxo
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Quote:this baby is just not going to grow old gracefully and die
recently discovered diaries and letters reveal that he actually wanted to name this piece “honig, sind sie ich können nicht ihr rotes unterhemd haben sicher?” which roughly translates to “honey, can’t i please have your red camisole?”
some researchers think there could be some doubt about the authenticity of these letters and diaries, but it does make you think, doesn’t it?I love it, but no comment!!!! **ROFLMAO**
Helen
