What exactly does it mean to feel like a woman?

[Catherine]

“In a nutshell” “expressing our (my) gender” to the topic of “What exactly does it mean to feel like a woman?” Is so easily expressed if one puts the horse before the cart, not the other way round.

My gender is female; that makes me a woman. Hence my emotions, thoughts, feelings, expressions, psyche, actions must be that of a woman.

Quote:

Moderator Comment:
The assertion below is not supported by a reference to a published paper. I have searched the articles presented at the last WPATH (Bangkok) and am unable to find any paper making such a simple assertion. If, indeed, such clear research exists it is worth posting the details in a separate thread so it can be more appropriately critiqued.

Research from the recent WPATH conference that is coming out of Amsterdam, indicates neuroscientists have proven beyond doubt the existence of two completely different organs; that being the female and male brain. Their research was not based on the actual physiological construction, but more realistically on its neurological functioning.

Be safe, well and happy
Catherine

[Adrian]

I knew this was going to be challenging…and the responses so far tend to confirm my premise that gender is both intangible and indescribable.

If I might summarise the responses so far:

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A genetic female says:
“I don’t understand what you mean by gender, When you say you feel like a woman what do you mean?”

Then you reply that feeling like a woman means:

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My gender is female, that makes me a woman

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I experience feelings which I imagine women feel when they are women

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I have sensitivity towards others and their opinions even if I don’t agree with them

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How I feel is not relating to male things

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I feel normal

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I feel like you feel

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I feel love, care and concern for the well-being of loved ones

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I don’t know – I feel like myself

Tricky isn’t it!!!

[Anonymous]

I feel so …. normal, now.

OK, the framework is male, occupation too… but being on hormones for several months now, enjoying the Girls growing… incredible nipple-sensations… yes to them !

But it’s the emotional stability and viewpoint the Estrogen is bringing out that’s so wonderful. Yes, the T is depressed, and there are subtle mental alterations too.

I’ve always loved a D&M conversation, but now I’m finding our female friends seem more at ease with me, sharing stuff they’d never done before. I’m certainly at ease and happy to converse with Women, more so than before. Even physically, they sense that I’m different, sort of Safe to be around and they sit closer and their body-language is more open.
But above all, it feels “appropriate” and “normal”

sorry if that confounds !

[Adrian]

Jeanette wrote:

sorry if that confounds !

It does somewhat as the focus of the thread is to explore how you would describe what it means to “feel like a woman” simply to the wider community.
With all respect “appropriate” and “normal” is just not going to cut it in creating greater community understanding and acceptance of gender.
And empathy with genetic women is something I observe in people who would not describe their gender as “like a woman” – some of my more flamboyant gay friends for example. Its all good stuff… but is it gender?

Can anyone else actually describe their gender? Or is it time I closed this attempt as “too hard”?

If I proposed that gender is indescribable, would anyone argue with me and prove me wrong?

[Jennifer_1]

Hi Amanda,

II am not going to argue with you. I think it is too hard to have one all encompassing definition. If we accept that everyone is somewhere on the gender spectrum, is it then likely that we all have a different view of what is man,woman or something else?

I think you could write a PhD on this topic and still not arrive at a definitive answer.

Cheers

Jenn

[Adrian]

Jennifer_1 wrote:

Hi Amanda,

II am not going to argue with you. I think it is too hard to have one all encompassing definition.

Back in the depths of this thread I wrote:

Quote:

So when we say to someone we feel like a woman, what the listener interprets that to mean can be widely different to what we meant. Being aware of the differences is probably a good start to improving our communications.

As everyone I have asked in real life (who has been able to answer) comes up with a different answer I don’t think it is fair for others to cast me as seeking one definition. I wanted to explore a) if anyone could define their gender “as a woman”, and b) in doing so explore how many different views there were.

To simply things a bit – I restrict the quest to those who identify as “feeling like a woman”. In doing so I acknowledge that where you are on any gender spectrum will influence your answers. But there do seem to be a significant number of people in the community who identify at the same gender “end” as many genetic females. I still assert that exploring the diversity in the “feel like a women” sub-group would be illuminating to everyone.

So I don’t think we have anything to argue about Jennifer!

[Jennifer_1]

Quote:

If I proposed that gender is indescribable, would anyone argue with me and prove me wrong?

Hi Amanda,

This is what I was referring to when I wrote, no argument . It would be lovely to be able to easily convey to others how it feels to me to be a woman. However I cannot think of a simple phrase or sentence that will do the job. All I can say to friends who have asked is, “for the first time I feel normal”.If they want to explore what that means to me I am very happy to talk with them.

So, no argument, rather agreement, it is a difficult question to answer.

Cheers

Jenn

[Anonymous]

I think it is obvious is that there is no answer other than what any given individual believes what being a woman feels like. We must, inevitably, fall back on arguing around the question, using stereotypes and roles to designate what we feel. It is one of those intangible things like spiritual belief eg,” The Tao that can be described is not the true Tao ” type thingy.

Perhaps , like many things of this nature , it is the question that is not valid?

[Adrian]

Christina wrote:

It is one of those intangible things like spiritual belief

I don’t think you can get much closer to my current pattern of thought. I have a more substantial article I’m writing – and its premise would be undermined if indeed gender was describable. So I thought i would ask the wider community first.

Christina wrote:

Perhaps , like many things of this nature , it is the question that is not valid?

I think the question is valid only because I regularly hear people labeling their gender in ways that apparently have no meaning to the listener. For as long as the big bad world needs educating about gender, we need to be able to explain it to them… but how!!!
Perhaps it is time to lock this thread… and ask another question.

[Anonymous]

Ah, I see where I may have missed the pointy end of the Question…
Could it be that ‘Us’ – at whatever place on the gender-line we occupy are content with the role and reason for that, but the difficulty lies with ‘Them’ as being unable to process our diverse answers.

But Thank You for asking it !

[Anonymous]

well thats a hard one

to me its more a feeling of well being, we will never know as we are males omg i said that word yuck

lets not over think some questions as we can get so rapped up in it we can lost focas on whats realy going on in our lives

this is one of those questions

so a answer to the question ask your self the question when your fully dressed and about to go out

thats a start i hope
cool question hurt my head a bit
salleyj

[Adrian]

I’ve now closed this discussion as it has run its course.
As Sally says – this clearly is a question that can get your thinking tied in knots.
But it illustrates the premise that feeling like a woman” is a hard concept to communicate.

If you want a new question to ponder…try this thread
http://forum.tgr.net.au/cms/forum/F157/5909-does-gender-realy-exist#25527