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Politics and us – have we a voice ?
In the recent debate about marriage equality there was no mention I noticed of us the transgender people. For marriage equality to be discussed and our issues to be all but unheard would suggest to me that we are all but politically mute.
The issue of same sex marriage is important in that as it stands a married transgender person is compelled to divorce in order to change official sex on government records. Accordingly any sound marriages that can survive the transition are consequently destroyed by government policy, I put this argument to a couple of objectors and it was tough to sway their views .
These were older folk who are positively the kind of people the politicians suggest will bite them . Of course the number members who voted on behalf of their church rather than their constituents will never truly be known, but I would suspect religion had a large hand in the resultant failure more so than public option.
Anyway I would be interested to know if anyone truly believes we have a voice . I feel like a poor second cousin to the gay community and I think we should have a voice.
Thanks to those that read hugz Kristyana.
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85 Replies
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Kristyana has raised an important issue around the political voice and influence exerted by transgender people. Whilst I would agree our voice appears weak to non existant, we have to view this in context.
Thanks to the strong and vital leadership of Agender Agenda we are endeavouring to make political progress for the benifit of both our sisters and brothers. I feel we are making some headway towards being heard by our pollies both in Canberra and the States. This is not some parochial movement in Australia, but is global and it is the global influence that is making a difference; we are being heard. I feel we as transgenderists are probably several years behind the gay and lesbian movement, but we are making slow but deliberate headway. I also think it is all about education. Whilst we as a group hide behind closet doors we will neither be seen nor heard. Don’t get me wrong, I’m just as guilty as anyone else for the hiding over the years, out of sheer terror of being found out. Follow the examples of the gay and lesbian movement, eg Harvey Milk, be out in the open, be active, raise your voice. I’m timid compared to others who are vocally strong, out and about and making their presence felt.
By the same token I’m well aware of the need by most to preserve their livelihoods and families. I think it a matter of balance. -
With regard to the marriage debate I can’t help wondering where we would stand as Transgendered and married if we completed our transition.
If we were to change our sex on our birth certificates even though we were already married what would be the implications.
As for a voice I think the best thing we could do is maybe lobby our local member for some support for Transgendered people as well as the gay movement. We all vote for these people so surely we are entitled to some support from them.
I wonder if they realise how many of their voters are actually covered by the umbrella of LGBT.
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A relevant question but I think it really should be ‘what do each of us do in regard to being a part of that voice’?
I’ve always believed that I am solely responsible for the outcomes in my life & as a consequence I tend not to be politically aligned (or aware).
What groups, organisations or individuals already exist to speak on behalf of Tg people? Maybe we should each involve ourselves with them in some capacity?
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As to the point of transition while married if you were to you would find that you can’t legally change your sex while you remain married. That is one of the pitfalls of transition while married and part of the point I was making..
We certainly can talk to local members but my experience of them is that they tend to pay lip service to matters they believe will not carry public favour, so as an individual it is difficult to influence matters. It is a matter of living in the shadows that adds to the lack of influence as well and that we for the most part really can’t change.
However we live in a modern age that allows a freedom to cast a wide net and collect support for issues of importance to us. There are enough of us that are living as we should and it is any one or more of those folk that can garner that support an wield it in the political forum . I know lots of people support us and they may only provide clandestine support for fear of possible repercussions but they are numbers that can give leverage.
We need a champion I can’t imagine where we may find one but it is what we need and a collective voice may help us find one. And I know we have various groups around the country but still we seem to talk with separate voices and we a voices lost in the crowds. One voice we don’t need a massive agenda just a coherence.
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Unfortunately we are a small minority, however this doesn’t mean we can’t be heard.
On the Marriage Equality issue however we are not in a small minority we are simply part of the wider LGBTI group who is campaigning on Marriage Equality.
Sure we have some separate needs but ultimately if Marriage Equality is legislated it will solve some of the problems faced by TG people (in particular not requiring a divorce to legally change our gender on our birth certificate, or not being unable to marry once we have legally changed our gender on our birth certificate).
There are many groups campaigning for Marriage equality on the web, a few below:
http://www.getup.org.au/campaigns/marriage-equality/petition/sign-and-share
http://www.australianmarriageequality.com/wp/
http://nswmarriageequality.com.au/You can write to your local politicians on this issue and explain how transgender people in particular are impacted by Marriage inequality as a lot of them are not aware of the unique issues it causes TG people.
As each state votes on marriage equality (I think NSW is next) you can get a list of the politicians that are undecided or unsupportive of marriage equality and write to them.
You can also write to the ones who are pro Marriage Equality and show them you appreciate their support. Its really just a matter of the politicians feeling comfortable enough that they are not going out on a limb.
Studies have already shown that the majority of Australians support marriage equality, we just have to get the politicians to catch up with the majority view.Another point to be aware of is there is a large well funded organisation in the opposite corner called the “Australian Christian Lobby” who have a lot of backing from people who are quite well off financially and who in my opinion hold a very narrow minded view that is not aligned with the majority of Australians or even the majority of the religious groups out there (A lot of church groups are publically distancing themselves from the ACL). The ACL hold some very bigoted views in my opinion and they are out to make sure that LGBTI people do not get treated fairly. They are well organised and they also get a lot of media attention. (Although some of the rubbish they come out with is more damaging to them than the LGBTI community I think). If you would like to see what the ACL stand for, check out their website http://www.acl.org.au/
The above is just my opinion and I am sure that others will have different views, I hope I dont open a can of worms with my comments that is not my intention, hopefully I have made some people aware of what they can do to promote marriage equality and our cause in general.
Alison
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There is value in the points just made but my main point is more about how we transgender people are barely being heard. And as you rightly pointed out there are others who do organise themselves so that they are heard , tasteless as they may be.
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I think the sheer fact that we are a real minority and that no party has considered us to be a block of votes they can count on is something that has to be taken into account.
Back in the 1980s Clover Moore deliberately sought out the Gay voters in inner Sydney to help her get into NSW Parliament as an Independent. It worked for her and to her credit she took up Gay issues and even now as Lord Mayor of Sydney she supports the Gay movement.
There are Gay and Lesbian politicians at State and Federal level, but there are no TG/CD candidates (I think Joylene Frogmouth from the band Jimmy and the Boys once tried for the NSW upper use) and because we cannot create a sufficiently high profile as per the Gay /Lesbian movement then it’s unlikely that we will ever be a big enough minority to have a sufficiently high profile or loud voice to ever be able to mount a serious campaign.
Helen
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In regards to Tg people having a voice generally, I agree with Helen’s previous comments & with these points in mind it seems logical in regard to marriage equality that Tg people become part of the alliance that already exists as per Alison’s comments.
One of the concerns is general & the other specific.
Quote:I think the sheer fact that we are a real minority and that no party has considered us to be a block of votes they can count on is something that has to be taken into account.Whilst in conversation last night with a Tg friend, the subject of the Tg community(?) came up in regard to a political voice, coherence & solidarity.
It’s all been said before but is relevant to this thread. Tg people are a very small minority. Unlike gay & lesbian people our identification as TG covers enormous scope of difference, not difference as people but difference in regard to our Tg identifications individually. Our only commonality is that we are not cis-gendered, beyond that we are a disparate group unlikely to ever be coherent enough to attain solidarity & a political voice, hence my previous question;
Quote:‘what do each of us do in regard to being a part of that voice’?I believe it is incumbent upon each individual to ask that famous question ‘ask not what your country (insert Tg community) can do for you, ask what can you do for your (Tg community)’
Complaining that we don’t have a voice is an observation, what is required is an action. -
One the question of same sex marriage the arguments are all for how it benefits the same sex couple but fails to say anything about how it benefits society as a whole.
Without how it benefits society the argument will fail.
We need to think how same sex marriage can benefit the majority.
The majority are thinking “what’s in it for me”
I have one: If it reduced promiscuity or even promises to reduce promiscuity we have at least on important argument for same sex marriage.
Any more 💡 💡
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Vicki -
Are you certain that marriage solves promiscuity? I’m fairly certain that promiscuity is personal choice & action. I fail to see how marriage can be be sensibly argued to ‘cure’ such pursuits.
Quote:If it reduced promiscuity or even promises to reduce promiscuity we have at least on important argument for same sex marriage. -
I agree with chloe i think using the promiscuity argument possibly could be used by others to suggest that lgbti people are more promiscous than the general population.
There should be marriage equality because lgbti people deserve the same rights and recognition. After all we also pay taxes, work, contribute to society, raise children, and all the other things that everybody else does. Why should we not be treated equally in the eyes of the law.
I did focus primariy on marrige equality in my prvious post as i believe this particular topic has a good chance of becomming a reality if not now then sometime in te near future if enough people get behind it.
As for the tg community being a small minority that is something we cant change, but it doesnt mean we cant be heard. All of the suggestions i made about writing to politicians apply equally to others issues that affect the tg community. The saying that the squeakisiest wheel gets the most oil comes to mind.
Something else that is underestimated is simply raising peoples awareness of us. By standing up, being proud of who we are and getting on with life and contributing to society people will gain more awareness of who we are and come to realise we are just the same as everybody else. I think in the most part tg people are something that is often thought of but how many people in the geneal pulic have really known or had anything to do with someone from the tg community. We just have to get out there and be ourselves and show everbody we are just the same (well almost anyway) as them.
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As a group we are small an vastly varied, it is I agree an issue that will not change. We have the added problem that the vast majority of transgender people want to fit the gender identity they’re aspiring to. That leads to people disappearing into that role just as soon as they can. I guess once you have attained your goal you move on not of course saying all do but it is one thing that ensures small numbers.
I think that we will eventually end this discussion in the land of limbo where it started for it seems to be an issue of can’t instead of can. I know I am in no position to change things and I kinda am in two worlds so don’t really live true to myself but, I have to say I believe in equality for all and all is exactly what I mean. The truth of our situation is that it can often have a devastating impact on the stability of families, finances and mental health and that has repercussions for all of society. Cost is what normally prompts a response from politicians so the best way to provoke interested is with an authoritative study.
Maybe if we have a cost benefit analysts we can get some attention after all what we go through must have wider ramifications, it can’t be good to have skilled people idle because their sexuality has become an issue for them and society or the other way round if you like.
So in essence I am saying I think we need to pull something together as a group to be heard and then consequently get the recognition and help we may need.
Thanks for reading, I shall stop now before I really get on my high horse and then promptly fall off it LOL. Hugz to all Kristyana.
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This thread started with an observation that, in a debate on the single issue of “same sex marriage” there appeared be no voice from the transgender community.
Others have speculated in this thread why our political voice is ineffective or non-existent and some have urged us to “do better”. My view is more controversial –
I don’t think we need a voice ,
or not one in the terms that I think were understood by the original post.Why am I so negative about the value of “a voice”?
Over the 15 or so years I’ve been active in the community I have seen many people seeking to be heard at a state or national level. But those who feel their voice should be heard, frequently leave me disappointed by both their motives and message. All too often the voice is from one small part of the transgender spectrum, the message is about an issue that directly affects the person speaking out, and their motive is to achieve a change that will (or would have) benefited them personally. There is nothing altruistic about most of the voices I hear.Look at the “same sex marriage” issue.
Who stands to benefit in our community?
Surely it is those who perceive themselves as a “woman”, who plan to change their physical sex, and who at the time of surgery are still in a robust marriage. If the gender diverse are a minority – then this subgroup is going to be very small. Historically I would expect to find some of the few affected standing up and lobbying for the change they believe in. And that lobbying would be based the needs of their transsexual journey but probably presented as a transgender issue.I, like so many others in the transgender community, get no benefit from any message that projects a community seeking to change physical sex.
It just isn’t true – we have statistics to prove it. Post-operative transsexuals are a small part of our community, highly visible during their journey, and often invisible afterwards. But as part of the wider transgender/gender diverse community they don’t have the numbers we often assume. And they certainly don’t carry with them a lot of robust relationships.There is strong anecdotal evidence that the “transsexual” journey is a big challenge to any relationship – and few get to the point of wanting to fly to Thailand for surgery with a partner at their side. The single sex marriage issue is looking for a voice that will represent only a small part of the community and benefit a small number of people.
So should the wider community support this lobbying though some sort of community voice? After all altruism is a good thing.
This is where I adopt what I hope is a well-founded, but I expect, controversial position.
My answer is NO.I believe that the number one issue affecting the whole of our community is acceptance of transgender/gender diverse people in society, and flowing on from that acceptance by partners and family. If these two issues were addressed I think every other inequality and irritation we face would resolve itself in time. I’m encouraged to see how much acceptance has changed in the last 15 years…and I hope to see a lot more change.
Does campaigning politically for issues such as single sex marriage increase our acceptance in society?
No! I believe the opposite. I think the single issue campaigns focusing on the legal obstacles to changing physical sex are re-enforcing a perception in society that transgender issues are to do with men becoming women (and visa versa). This patently is not true. The vast majority of transgender people are uninterested/unwilling/unable to change their physical sex. Re-enforcing the perception may break more relationships than it will save. And what is the use of being able to change sex and stay married if you aren’t in a relationship anymore?I also think we have to have realistic expectations. Others have observed that we are a minority. This means the changes we seek have to be carefully chosen so as to win the support of society at large. If our primary goal is to enhance our acceptance by society then we need to act in a way that doesn’t unnecessarily alienate significant other groups. I believe that many single issue campaigns paint us as trouble makers in the eyes of the ‘majority’ rather than as a group who wants to be accepted.
I don’t think that acceptance will come through having a voice – though a few well selected and well placed messages can help. Our lobbying should be to create awareness and understanding as a precursor to acceptance and then change.
We don’t all need to turn into lobbyists attacking the system, but rather need to come out of our closets, be proud of who we are, deserve respect from others, and cease being an isolated, hidden, minority.
If there is a voice for our community I want it to be representative of all the gender diverse, whether they were born male or female, whether they want to change their physical sex or not; I want it to speak with reason; and I want it to attract the respect and acceptance of those who hear the message.
I know they are rather grand aims, but at the start of a new year one tends to be somewhat idealistic about the future!
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The thread is about our collective voice not directly relating to any one issue , if that is what is drawn from my initial coment there is a misunderstanding. The marriage issue was an example of an issue getting attention . We irrespective of that issue have no collective voice for the gender diverse community, I am unaware of any groups organization or individuals who are seeking to represent us.
There is no personal interest to be served here, only a desire to see if anyone is of a similar mind and from there see if a solution can evolve. There is no interest in subversion or undermining of community values. With the right voices taking issues of importance to the right people we may be able to establish some systems of help for people who are starting whatever journey they are on. That is something that would involve funding and organization that is it appears none existent as far as I can tell.
Not a selfish thought I hope.
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Quote:The thread is about our collective voice not directly relating to any one issue , if that is what is drawn from my initial coment there is a misunderstanding.
It does appear that many people find it easier to discuss the absence of a collective voice with regard to a specific issue.
My point was that any collective voice that focuses on issues, and not on awareness and understanding is going to fall way short on delivering the general improvement to the transgender lifestyle we all need.
Quote:With the right voices taking issues of importance to the right people we may be able to establish some systems of help for people who are starting whatever journey they are on. That is something that would involve funding and organization that is it appears none existent as far as I can tell.You are proposing exactly the type of issues based lobbying that I think may help a few people, but would also probably erode the foundation of acceptance in society we need to build on.
I think Liz was pretty close to the mark when she wrote:
Quote:I also think it is all about education. Whilst we as a group hide behind closet doors we will neither be seen nor heard.And when Chloe exhorted us to:
Quote:ask what can you do for your (Tg community)I think the action we need is to educate and seek acceptance, not to pick on potentially divisive issues, get funding and go lobbying
