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Has the attitude of the NSW Police changed?
After telling this story to a few people, I was encouraged to share it on here.
Several weeks ago I was pulled over for a RBT.
I’d been enjoying a nice dinner and a bottle of wine with friends in Newtown and heading home. I felt confident I was ok to drive and under the limit as I hadn’t drunk that much anyway
Unfortunate for me the initial RBT was positive (I was just over the limit). The police officer asked me to park my car and wait 15mins for another test. After the second test I was still just over. I was told I was under arrest in the interim and taken to the nearby RBT Bus where a third and final test would seal my fate. Lucky for me the third and final test was negative; I was under the limit and could go freely.
This was my first experience with Police. Initially from the start I was VERY nervous with this whole thing because I didn’t know how the police would handle me, especially with all the abuse GLBT people have suffered in the past at the hands of the NSW police. I was expecting some rude/smart/cheeky comments from them or even being treated like crap.
Good News
I was very impressed with the professionalism of the police officers. They treated me with respect and even referred to me several times as “Madam†and/or “Sheâ€Â. Also, the senior officer in the RBT Bus even asked me what name I would prefer to be addressed as during this. He had my drivers licence in his hands! (I told him Amy of course lol)I guess if this was 10-20 years ago it would have been a different story.
I’m curious, has anyone had a negative experience with Police in the last 12 months?
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20 Replies
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I’ve been breath-tested twice while out dressed over the last couple of years and had no problems. Both times I was treated respectfully and they did their job professionally so one can’t ask for more than that.
The police are really the same as anyone else – if you’re fair and reasonable with them, as a rule you won’t have a problem.
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I’ve been pulled over several times by both Queensland and Western Australian police for RBT, never any problems always address by assumed gender and treated as such
. As drinking habits tend to change with the way we present ie chugging beers vs drinking Chardy if you know what I mean, a good tip is to invest in a breatho from supercheep Auto, could save further blushes especially if you were carted off to the nick : – ) -
I’ve been pulled over 3 times enfemme in the last 2 years for RBT. Every time they were curtious, checked my licence and sent me on my way.
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Prior to my transition NSW police were less than respectful to me. Since transition, although I have no respect for NSW police in general (when you’ve been beaten up by four of them in your own home for – what was it the judge said “not paying my father rent” which four courts previous denied I owed, and was claimed a year after the beating – paradox huh) I don’t go out of my way to interact with them.
I hadn’t been RBT’d in about 15 year prior to my transition. considering the Kms I’ve covered on the road – fluky – inn fact the last time was in Canberra about 1985.
However, November I was RBT’d three times on the same road going home. Good on them, I think it’s a great thing – in some respects. I also got RBT’d on the South side of the Harbour Bridge heading North one AM after going to the Taxi Club.
I was always addressed as Miss, even when I produce my less than rem drivers licence
Had a good giggle with the Female officer, she blushed more than me.I guess it depends on the situation to which they are involved. One where they are told lies will no doubt result in a more intense situation.
In the USA over many of the 12 months I’ve had no issues at all. I’ve had Police come up and ask if all is OK when I look lost, has anyone hassled me, two even offered to hang around till my bus arrived.
In the UK, I’ve had a very different experience with police. They are, so far anyway, quite genuinely interested in the community. Quite prepared to stop at a bus stop with a few people and chat for a few mins, or hang around till a bus comes. I’ve had this happen a few times.
On a train I had Transport police at 1 AM specifically come to me and ask if I was OK, was anyone bothering me, did I want to come to a different carriage reserved for women on late night trips. I declined, no one was interested, most were too busy on their laptops, mobile phones or PDAs or reading news papers to notice me anyway
I can’t say the same entirely even in Sydney after Transition, however it was really looks and reactions around Taylor Square, no approached by any of the police patrols. In fact I found the Bouncers along the strip more friendly and watchful. Go figure.
I have been told the GLBT Liaison officers are really good. I haven’t had any interaction directly, although came close one day when I was threatened with police action for using a womens amenity. A little Legislative education on my part to the ignorant parties and the issue was settled the next morning.
I guess it’s a good point to KNOW that all LAC’s have a GLBT liaison officer, and if they don’t they will contact one for you. Keep that in mind in case you do have an issue that needs Police Assistance or worse, you are involved in some fiasco. These special officers KNOW the laws relating to Transgender persons and will guide and instruct ordinary officers accordingly.
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Good topic Amy, never thought about it till now. Have had one drive en femme (yes I sneaked out of the closet !) and I guess my turn will come when pulled over dressed.
Nice to know the boys in blue treated us with the respect I think we deserve.You must have been terrified Amy when your 2nd test was postive. I was so close once years ago as a male and was shaking like anything when told to blow into the bag. I was negative .
I have know Police officers and worked for them in my line of work and no there no problems with them – they have a hard job in this age. -
That’s a relief (and I’m pissed off you hadn’t told me about it in person;) ) and a really positive light to paint the police in, Hexa and I were pulled over and RBT’ed by two Newtown cops last year, they couldn’t have been nicer.
Great to hear you weren’t over the limit, girl!!!!
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I have always had the dread of getting stopped by an RBT whilst dressed. The comments and experiences quoted make me feel a little more comfortable. I have no doubts that one day it’ll happen, just hope the police are courteous!
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Hi Amy and all
like an situation in life there can be bad days and even worse days.
But generally the NSW Police Force has been trained to be no discrimatory as that is the world we (sipposedly) live in and theres should be no hassles.
Yes you may get a smarty who will purposely ‘Sir’ you but generally they don’t and shouldn’t care.
The other point I would like to bring up is that if you are decently dressed and look like or are getting hassled is to say you are a Transexual!
As such the law recognises that you have rights and al that crap our Society prides itself in.
Saying you are a crossdresser just doesn’t cut any cake, full stop.
Main thing is if you are legal and responsible, don’t be afraid.
Be proud
Love
Jennett -
Jennet,
Very few transgrrls can actually use being trans as protection from discrimination. To claim that protection one needs to be a ‘recognised transgender person’, and that involves having had your birth certificate amended following gender re-assignment surgery and being medically assessed as having so by two medical professionals.
While the NSW Police Service, in particular, has been trained to observe non-discriminatory practices, as much as possible, if you get into hassles, your safest bet is to actually say that you are GAY, which will provide you with much more assistance should you be in need.
I suggest that everyone who hasnt already read the anti-discrimination law do so at
http://www.lawlink.nsw.gov.au/lawlink/adb/ll_adb.nsf/pages/adb_transgender
to clear up this innaccurate preconception held by many of this community, that wearing a dress gives them the protections afforded to a limited number of ‘recognised transgender persons’.
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Quote:Jennet,
Very few transgrrls can actually use being trans as protection from discrimination. To claim that protection one needs to be a ‘recognised transgender person’, and that involves having had your birth certificate amended following gender re-assignment surgery and being medically assessed as having so by two medical professionals.
While the NSW Police Service, in particular, has been trained to observe non-discriminatory practices, as much as possible, if you get into hassles, your safest bet is to actually say that you are GAY, which will provide you with much more assistance should you be in need.
I suggest that everyone who hasnt already read the anti-discrimination law do so at
http://www.lawlink.nsw.gov.au/lawlink/adb/ll_adb.nsf/pages/adb_transgender
to clear up this innaccurate preconception held by many of this community, that wearing a dress gives them the protections afforded to a limited number of ‘recognised transgender persons’.
I’m not in NSW, but from that web site there are 2 issues: Discrimination and harrassment for being transgendered, and being counted as a member of your chosen gender. To me, it looks like you don’t have to be a “recognised transgender person” for the purposes of anti-discrimination provisions. However, if you want to be counted for any purpose as a member of your chosen gender, then you do need to be a recognised transgender person.
Good web site though.
Simone.
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This is truely one huge grey hole and if you are not legal recoginsed post op transexual it only gets blacker as you travel down the scale and put bluntly if you are not the aformentioned legal entity you basically have no rights and so if you fall foul harrasement or discrimination you would have virtually no chance. However things are not looking so bleak, with HREOC’s latest project to look into gender diversty and the push for national and state based human rights acts, things could change.
Rhi
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Simone wrote:
Quote:I’m not in NSW, but from that web site there are 2 issues: Discrimination and harrassment for being transgendered, and being counted as a member of your chosen gender. To me, it looks like you don’t have to be a “recognised transgender person” for the purposes of anti-discrimination provisions. However, if you want to be counted for any purpose as a member of your chosen gender, then you do need to be a recognised transgender person.As you are a queenslander, your own set of laws apply…
http://www.adcq.qld.gov.au/Brochures07/genderid.html
and they seem to be a step ahead of those here in NSW.I do apologise but you just dont get it rearding NSW laws… and I quote ‘If you are not counted as a recognised transgender person , you cant legally force people to treat you as your preferred gender, but they must still treat you fairly’. Take that as you will, but the interpretation of ‘treat you fairly’ is a very open and liberal one, which quite often depends on the mood of the person you are expecting ‘fair treatment’ from…. so basically, in this position you have very little in the way of legal rights to claim antidiscrimination of any kind.
In practice, this…
http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,23166157-5001021,00.html
is more like the way things operate here in NSW -
Thanks for the posts girls
I just want to add, I feel extremely lucky in this day to be able to go out in public and be allowed to enter café’s, restaurants, shopping malls, nightclubs, mainstream stuff etc as I know there was a time when this was pretty impossible, or possible but with rejection, ridicule, verbal abuse, physical violence and even death at the hands of police and/or the general public. (We’ve all heard and read the story’s)
I’m not a political person, however last year I attended the Transgendered Day of Remembrance at Bar Me. The reason I went there was out of respect for those girls who weren’t as fortunate as me. They were the ones who fought the fight and made the changes in the law possible so girls like me can enjoy the freedom I do today. (Lest We Forget)
I know that sounds a little cheesy, but just think about it for a moment
Hugz & Peace
Amy -
Paying honor to the fallen girls who went before us, whose deaths hopefully made a difference in the way we are accepted today and acknowledging the work of the trans who play politics to try to make posiive change is all well and good, and that acknowledgement is deserved, however well their efforts go towards acheiving a positive outcome, no matter how small, for ALL the community. I would like to acknowledge another group of transpeople who REALLY make a difference in Australian society.
Im talking about the ones who go out there every day and be true to themselves and have the courage to stand up and demand a fair go from the people around them, everyday, normal people.
Im talking about the grrl or transboi who is out there, whether they are 24/7/365 or not, living their reality as best they can, in as normal a fashion as they can, showing the world we are NORMAL people, nothing to be reviled or feared.
These are the ones who make a difference.
We need to distance ourselves from the Priscilla and Wong Foo imagery of how the world sees us. I’m gonna say it out loud and it wont be liked, but these movies are NOT about trans…., hell, only ONE character in the two movies is actually trans. The two movies misportray us as gay men who crossdress, *draqueens*, and while they do wave the flag for us in an exemplary manner, they are most often not us, and the sooner the reality is faced, the sooner we can move beyond these movies as a community and show the world we are REAL NORMAL people who deserve the same rights and protections as everyone else out there.
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Quote:I just want to add, I feel extremely lucky in this day to be able to go out in public and be allowed to enter café’s, restaurants, shopping malls, nightclubs, mainstream stuff etc as I know there was a time when this was pretty impossible, or possible but with rejection, ridicule, verbal abuse, physical violence and even death at the hands of police and/or the general public. (We’ve all heard and read the story’s)
Isn’t it fair to say that if you were an Aboriginal only 30 odd years ago you would be subject to the same, or Asian, or in reality a Woman not even 200 years ago in general was treated as a 2nd class person.
As most TS people tend to blend, usually there is no attention. The credibility and stereotype has come from the Man in a Frock situation more than anything else. The public perception that was indoctrinated for many years hat a Man could not be a woman (or versa) and so a Man with hairy legs and arms in a dress was to be ridiculed.
I actually copped this abuse on Thursday afternoon – a very loud and very stupid woman decided to take me on. On Friday, same place, same time, many woman came up to me to shake my hand and congratulate me for being so brave and coming out so visibly.
Yep the stupid woman came out and started crowing again, but she was well in the minority as her peers realised they weren’t going to get anywhere with so many positive people around.
Shame Stupid woman could have come up and asked me about me, rather than going on about how I “looked ridiculously” in a skirt and top – strangely the same top I’ve worn a dozen times with a pair of pants that didn’t draw her attention previously. Funnier still, it’s not the first time (nor a rare time) I’d worn makeup – so really she was just totally jealous about the attention SHE caused me to get.
Had she said nothing and gone on with her business – NO ONE would have given me a second look.
I did record on my phone the entertaining altercation and will be using it in a doco shortly
Needless to say she was entertaining as she boasted and gloated about how “great she looked”. Shame that although her dress sense was adequate her personality crushed the image totally.Did I mention that Stupid Woman was black
Not that this realy means anything because there were other black, asian, indian, white, god-knows-what people around cheering me on and telling me to ignore her.I loved her words “get away form the freak” shouted at her daughter who was smiling and trying to ask me a legitimate curiosity question. Wonder if she does that to all white(ish) people?
