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Kellogs Cruncy Nut Add.
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Sorry, so not getting this….footballers shouldn’t dress up ( I agree, as they are usually denigrating us), no drag queens in public (um, can’t agree with that one, where does that stop? no cd’s in public?, no tv’s in public?, no ts drag queens in public? ) but tv ads denigrating us are ok? Sorry really, really not getting that at all.
Yours in total confusion
Gwen -
Hi Girls , I dont mind the add and dont find it offensive !!
Cheers Ella-Kristine -
This is a copy of a post I made to the Canberra Transgender Network. Taken in the right context, I believe its relevant here in TR.
Those of you who know me well are aware I don’t generally respond to these types of topics as I find them divisive for members of the Transgender community.
Reactions to “causes” invariably escalate to levels dis-proportionate to the perceived “wrong” in the first instance!
In respect to the Kelloggs advert that is the basis of this topic, how many of you have actually been ridiculed directly by the public due to its screening?
Anyone?
It hasn’t happened to me! And i’m regulary out amongst the public during the daytime & evenings, most days of the week, in various locations within Canberra! No snickering! No pointing! No derogatory comments of any sort! Certainly nothing I can attribute to the Kelloggs advert!
That said, I’m generally adverse to media coverage that projects the Transgender movement in a negative manner. I agree that anything that denigrades the image of Transgendered people creates another perceived “obscene” lifestyle choice that is detrimental to our community!
By all means, lodge written complaints to the regulatory authorities and the organisations associated with the Kelloggs advert (in this instance) or any other anti-Transgender oriented undertaking that is promoted to the public by the media.
Ok, so you’ve taken action and it makes you feel good – now what? How do you negate the effect the advert has had on the public?
In fact, has the Kelloggs advert really had such an effect that it has shifted society’s attitude against Transgenders? Or is it seen as a small part in an overall context of clever advertising? Indirectly, the advert is actually bringing to notice that Transgenders exist in society – isn’t that good in some small way?
Back to my question though – how to mitigate the “perceived” adverse effects of the Kelloggs advert? Its simple really – stop hiding behind a computer screen and mix with the public! The advert implies Transgenders live in domestic environments – it’s up to you to demonstrate that Transgenders are also outside the home! If they (the public) can’t see you, they will never understand and accept you!
I live by that philosophy and have had many positive comments from people from all walks of life – in fact the older generation are the most accepting in my experience!
There are a few potential benefits and some obvious contrary outcomes to the Kelloggs advert, but how you react to them is dependant on your attitude – are you a positive or negative thinker?
CLARE.
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Well said Clare and Ella! I totally agree with your reasoning.
Lighten up girls. Take it in the way it was meant as humourous and don’t look too seriously for hidden meanings and agendas. Did the elderly complain at the hospital death scenario ad? Have a look on ‘U’ tube at all the Crunchy nut ads. THEY ARE FUNNY!
Have a laugh at life, don’t take it too serious as it doesn’t last that long.
Hugs, Fay
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Girls, I think that the issue is not what affect his type of denigration of a minority group has on any one individual but on the overall progress of our “tribe ” in gaining a better acceptance and improving our image in the wider society. If the ad had an Aboriginal person come to the door and say some stereotyped racial comment , it would not be acceptable today as that ” tribe” has power enough now to say no. ( that was not always the case as we know , King Billy Cokebottle comes to mind, wasn’t that a funny one????NOT)What if it was a person with a spasticity such as with MS or such? What is the difference?
As a friend ( who works with Aboriginal people in the wilds of SA ) said, they may find an ad such as I suggested , funny to watch but woe betide anyone from the OUTSIDE who made such a joke. Perhaps we should think the same about OUR people?.
Now I am no shrinking violet and had not really thought that this was important until I gave it more thought. I am not that easily offended by this personally but there is a principle here IMO.
Sure, people may not directly react to us in a negative way because of the ad but this ad isn’t really any positive message about us is it? I don’t think it is , it is just a cheap joke to sell the product of a multinational corporation , at our expense and they do this because they think we won’t mind ( or matter!) and that the public will laugh along with the joke and buy the product. It is that simple IMO. Why else would they spend their precious money ?
As you say Clare , we can complain or not but it is a wider issue at play here I think. -
Sorry again but in a generalist sense if some one from a minority group is offended by an advertisement “get a sense of humour” or it’s equivalent is not an appropriate response. “I don’t find it offensive” is perfectly ok as it is a personal statement. The first sentiment is invalidating another persons feelings. Just take it that some people find the ad offensive. They are entitled to feel offended and to express that. That’s exactly what has happened in this case.
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As a person who is currently living fulltime with the exception of a legal name change and having done so for long enough to experience life I am going to offer this comment…..I’ve watched this thread unfold and honestly, all that I can say is this. I’m with Clare on this one, every single point that she has made in her post is a good one. I’m not going to denigrate anyone else but more so say that she has put up some really good thinking material. We’ve seen a guy in drag here in his house and not doing us any real favours in a way but hey, where do we draw the line with what should be banned? I’ve seen bearded fellows walking around in Sydney (not for fancy dress reasons etc. either) in a full on dress and heels and they do much more harm I feel than anyone on TV with a light-hearted attitude. Sure the TV gets a bigger audience but yeah, it comes back to what Clare asked about anyone getting abused etc. because of it. I for one haven’t, not in the least. And remember I live out in a suburb of Sydney that a lot of times gets referred to as “Westie Central”.
Peta A.
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Well girls I saw on the lastest TR digest that this add has been the subject of many comments.
I am one who saw the add and had a good chuckle. I do understand the defensiveness, but I do understand the advertising slant.
There are lots of different ways to look at this. One is that twenty years ago, can you imagine the uproar if a transgender was to appear on the TV at all. To me using an unattractive drag queen is no different than using any other non “perfect person” from any other demograhic group.
This is about the attractiveness of the individual not their personal preferences.
If they used an attractive transgender, to me that would be a far more negative thing, because their statement would be that anyone transgendered, rather than just an unattractive one, should be seen as a offensive person to socialise with.
Wether we like it or not we live in a world where all creatures, animal and human are judged by our attractivness.
I guess when it all boils down to it, our opinions and our acceptance (or not) of others opinions are what makes the world go around!! -
I am ready to receive a lot of flak, but aren’t we being a little precious? I have seen the advert and like a lot of ads it is designed to attract the Bogan element. If the advert was so offensive, then I dare say there would have been a lot of complaints received by all channels.
I remember a few years ago when there was an advert that depicted a young man going into a chemist’s shop, he bought some condoms and made a lascivious comment. The ad went on to show the young man having dinner with his girlfriend and lo and behold her father was the chemist. I think it lasted once. Was that offensive, or was it something people didn’t want to see?
The point being, if you make a lot of noise about something, then things happen, however at what cost? Do we want to risk being further isolated by complaining about a puerile advert that isn’t even funny to anybody who has half a brain.
Sometimes it is best to turn the other cheek and go with the flow, in this case I think it is.
By the way I am English by birth but have to put up with the soubriquet Pom, if I was from nearly any other place I’d have cause to complain get a lawyer at Commonwealth cost and get a nice sum!
Helen xxxxxxx
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Why is there a presumption this person is a “transvestite” or “drag queen”? (Yes, I’m not blind to the obvious inference). Is the stereotype the woman of Mediterranean heritage who needs to shave every morning
Most of us look a bit rough first thing. There’s nothing derogratory or stereotypical with this woman’s behaviour, but I do urge her to see her endo to review her method of oestrogen intake. Those veiny legs look gross.
I wonder if we take some of it just a little bit too seriously
Love you all.
It’s a beautiful dayHugs
Christina -
Well, for what its worth from a “dormant” contributor to these forums, I think Clare is pretty spot on with her observations, though I certainly do acknowledge the “wider issue” as was mentioned earlier. We certainly carn’t complain about every portrayal in the media – to do so may harm our community in other ways. “Personally”, I thought the add was a mildly funny – sorry if that offends anyone !!!!!
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well – this one seems to be going round in circles a little, but it looks like there are 2 camps – the is the “serious” camp and there is the “let’s lighten up camp”.
i think what we need to understand firstly is the context of the “complaint”. this is an advertisement, and the question posed by Romanadvouratrelundar is whether or not the advertisement breaches the advertising standards. There are two possible bases – a breach of the code of ethics (a portrayal of sex/sexuality or portrayal of people in a discriminatory way or with vilification) and then there is a breach of Advertising Code for Advertising and Marketing Communications to Children (relating to social values).
so the question is not, are you offended by this advertisement, or should drag shows be subject to the same controls, or have we, as individuals, been ridiculed because of the advertisement, or should we laugh at life and be less precious, or be less serious about life.
looking at the first, (1) portrayal of sex/sexuality or (2) portray of people in a discriminatory way or with vilification – i agree – this may be marginal. but i still consider it to be offensive though, on the grounds that the advertisement reinforces a stereotype view of what trans people may be.
the real question is, do you know anyone like this person in the advertisement? is it fair that an advertisement portrays trans people in this way? it’s like advertisements that portray, say, aboriginals as drunkards. that would be offensive because it implies that many aboriginals are drunkards. if you look in the code of ethics, the code is:
Quote:Advertising or Marketing Communications shall not portray people or depict material in a way which discriminates against or vilifies a person or section of the community on account of race, ethnicity, nationality, sex, age, sexual preference, religion, disability or political belief.“vilify” is defined as “to lower in estimation or importance”. for the purposes of the code, “vilification” is tested on an objective standard – does this vilification apply to everyone in general, not you or me as a trans person. i agree that this advertisement is probably on the marginal scale, as opposed to the “easily falls in the breach” category. still, what i find offensive is that it is marginal – there should be strong portrayals of trans people in the media. will this advertisement help the general population understand our existence and being? in my mind, even if there is only a slight level of “lowering of estimation or importance”, then it should not be shown.
i am also of the view that there is enough transphobia, discrimination and ignorance, that a marginally acceptable advertisement is not good enough and should not be shown. everyone is entitled to a differing view of course. it will be interesting how this one is treated by the advertising board.
as mentioned in my previous post on this topic, the second basis of complaint is the advertising code for advertising and marketing communications to children. one of the factors in this code is “social values”. the question you have to ask is what social values does this advertisement imply about trans people to children? again, i would say that the social value portrayed is negative. you could not possibly say it is positive, no matter how light you want to be, no matter how un-precious (semi-precious?) you want to be (or maybe i’m seeing something others do not).
if you think this advertisement is a good portrayal of trans people and trans lifestyles suitable for children, then i would be a little surprised. again, even if this is marginally negative, the fact that it is negative is, in my mind, sufficient for grounds that the advertisement should be withdrawn.
maybe i’m missing something – if anyone has a good reason why this advertisement is a positive portrayal of trans people and trans lifestyle to children, then please share that with us. children have different capabilities as to appreciating preciousness, being light, and seriousness.
and why do i think it is important to have the media portray trans people in a positive light (and i don’t expect people to agree with me)? well, let’s think about transprejudice. yes – you may live your lives incident free, but i would suggest that all trans people have experienced transprejudice in one way or another.
transprejudice exists on personal, interpersonal, institutional and cultural levels
see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transphobia#Difficulties_encountered_by_transgender_people
on a personal level, why are we so traumatised about coming out of the closet? on an interpersonal level, why do so many of us have difficulties with our partners and spouses (not to mention our children, friends, family and work mates)? on an institutional level, why do trans people have difficulties in custody cases or have to go to extraordinary steps just to have a bank account opened in a femme name or obtain a birth certificate or passport or trans women thrown into men’s prisons? on a cultural level, there are many examples of trans people not being appointed to jobs on the basis of their trans status or suffer some hardship in our workplace because of our gender? and how many trans people appear in advertisements or television programs just simply as trans people, nothing else? do they play doctors, judges, or politicians? trans radio (and the trans community generally) is littered with these stories. and we haven’t even mentioned transphobia – bashing and killings.
the point of making a complaint is not to feel good, but to try and make the trans world a better place. not to do so and let advertisements like these go without comment or protest is to accept the trans world as it is and the media be allowed to continue portraying us as stereotypes.
you or i may be able to go about our lives without very low levels of transprejudice, but what about the six foot six 100 kilo size 24 dress trans person, or a 13 year old with no budget for decent make up and clothing presenting themselves in public for the first time. are they likely to benefit from an accepting/understanding society? or should we not worry about them, because we do not experience transprejudice, or want to be light and not serious.
i would be the first to accept that we should be self deprecating and should be able to laugh at ourselves (please bring on a pan am type comedienne pointing at trans people). and i would be the first to fight for our acceptance in society. this is what i believe this is about. and i don’t expect anyone else to have that same passion. it is up to you.
please don’t interpret this post as a personal flame on your views. this is how i see it. you are entitled to your opinion. i thank amanda for giving us this forum to discuss these things amongst ourselves. i hope that we all learn a little from each other. and we can always agree to disagree.
blessings, peace and love
virginia xo -
I am beginning to wonder just how diverse this gender diverse community is?
While I respect that people are entitled to an opinion, so many of the opinions are strictly from the Transgendered point of view.
I guess the people who did not mind the add, and pointed out that they have not been harrassed are thinking (quite natruallly for most of them so not their fault) from the the Transgender point of view. As an intersex person who was harrassed, attacked, bullied, stalked and even shot at for being different, I find adds like that one very offensive. The idea that it is okay to make fun of anyone for being different is offensive to me. Now that’s my opinion. I have chosen to do something about it.
I respect that others may also have a right to an opinion, and may not be offended by the add. I’m quite used to transgendered people not being able to relate on the same level as Intersex people, because yeah, most of you have not gone through the shit that many Intersex people have had to go through in school. Many trans people also have the option of walking away from things and taking a break from being another gender for a while. This is not an option many Intersex people have.
But really, I’m TIRED of being told to LIGHTEN UP! Yeah, I was told that when I made complaints of bullying in high school. It was just another excuse for people not dealing with the bulllying. Then it just spiriled out of control until I was shot at. Like I said, you’re entitled to you opinion, but so am I. So stop dissing me for having one, and doing something about it.
Sorry for coming acros with a bit of anger here, but I’ve had it with the so called gender diverse community ignoring Intersex people.
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No-one is “dissing” anyone here I believe but the thread has continued on in a way where people have stated what they thought of the ad., nothing more. There was more then one person in the postings so far that didn’t like the ad. so no-one has been singled out at all by anyone and that is an honest truth. Everyone here on this site respects everyone I believe but it doesn’t mean that we can’t ever have differences in opinions from time to time. That is all that has happened here, nothing more. I very recently saw an ad. on TV where a big, burly truck driver was quietly saying that he wanted to fly overseas and see the ballet and his workmates overheard and started giving him heaps. The point that I’m making is that there is a funny side to that ad. and the one mentioned in this thread has one too, some people will see the funny sides in both examples and some won’t, it’s as simple as that. Like I said NO-ONE is “dissing” anyone.
Peta A.
Moderator
Quote:To re-enforce what Peta has said, it is a policy of these forums that everyone’s opinion is respected and no one is attacked for holding a particular view. Our aim is to build an honest diverse community not let it fragment along lines of label, gender, or any other artificial division. The sin bin is littered with past members who have tried to fuel the TS v TG gap, and I would hope that no one would attempt the same with our friends who associate with being intersex. -
I saw the ad for the first time yesterday, and immediately thought of this thread, and the ppl here. I’d like to think that the producers just had a bit of an ignorant brain fade. It probably never came to them that they could be reinforcing negative stereotypical opinions of CDers.
I was watching TV with my wife at the time. She struggles with (but accepts) my CDing. The ad did absolutely nothing to promote my cause at home 🙄
Tash
