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Labels.. do we need them, should we have common definitions?
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This thread shows clearly how some of us need labels, some don’t want labels, and few agree on what any particular label means.
It takes a bit to ruffle my feathers….but a post in another thread throwing labels about has me hot under the collar (well actually a polo neck ).
( http://forum.tgr.net.au/cms/forum/F145/3483-483 )So, having been labeled in an unwanted and inaccurate way by someone can I add to the current discussion.
“No matter whether you need labels, or common definitions of labels…you should NEVER label someone else.”
So much of who and what we are is in our head. Never be so presumptuous to think that you can apply your labels to others, and without causing offense.
Phew,,,,that feels better already!
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Label = A brief description given for purposes of identification
As labels go they can be useful when pointing out everyday items but when you try to label people you can always find a group that will use that label in ways that can hurt. So I can understand how some people pull back from using a word that will identify them, and to identified people will always end up with the most narrow minded description as labels go for our community they’ve always been made up by others outside our control. This I find very offensive that people I know as friends can be turned into a two-dimensional stereotype.
On the other hand for people who are looking to find support and friendship via the Internet all they can do is put in a label/description to help themselves find others. It’s how I found TR and this website has changed my life, so the labels are like training wheels once you know what you’re doing you just get rid of them.
And now I want to live my life with my friends and the label I want you to use for me now is Penny.
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from the oxford english dictionary:
tranny
(also trannie)
• noun (pl. trannies) informal 1 chiefly Brit. a transistor radio. 2 a transvestite.
http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/tranny?view=uk
and transvestite as
transvestite
• noun a person, typically a man, who derives pleasure from dressing in clothes considered appropriate to the opposite sex.
— DERIVATIVES transvestism noun.
— ORIGIN German Transvestit, from Latin trans- ‘across’ + vestire ‘clothe’.
http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/transvestite?view=uk
interestingly, the oed then defines transgender as
transgender
(also transgendered)
• adjective transsexual
http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/transgender?view=uk
on the other hand, dictionary.com defines transgender as
trans·gen·der
Spelled[trans-jen-der, tranz] –noun1. a person appearing or attempting to be a member of the opposite sex, as a transsexual or habitual cross-dresser.
–adjective Also, trans·gen·dered.2. being, pertaining to, or characteristic of a transgender or transgenders: the transgender movement.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/transgender
so the dictionary.com definition may be an american view.
i think, on balance, both of them seems to have got it confused.
geez … how is the rest of the world going to sort this out when the “authorities” can’t even get it right?
i guess this goes back to what amanda said about fluid concepts … but by the oed definition, tranny radio seems to be about transvestites, whereas by dictionary.com definition, tranny radio would be about trangender people.
not very helpful, i know!
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Quote:Tranny does not sit well with me at all. To me Tranny is a chick with a dick that is known to sell them selves for money on the street corner. Each time someone outside the TG world has called me a tranny they are eith asking me how much or are wanting to have a discreet affare with me, both leaving me feeling dirty and upset.
I agree 100%!
Quote:I agree with Gwen I am just a woman with a history that may differ a bit form other woman.That said far too many of the population (especially friends who knew me before transition) follow the thought/discussion lines with “you’re a woman now but doesn’t that make you a tranny?” They are not being mean or deliberately upsetting, they are just in the dark with no clue as to what I was/am, then out comes the explanation of man, woman, trans* and then the inevitable gay (and lesbian) vs straight vs both comments. These people I have known for most my life, and just want to understand.
Take care,
Shells
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I joined TR so long ago, I’ve forgotten! I am PROUD to be called a TRANNY! A Tranny is not someone who sells herself on a street corner – that could be ANYONE, I’m a Transvestite Bi male who is very comfortable in my life.
So while there may be a need to identify ones self as in a particular ‘orientation’ or ‘position ‘ on the sexual continuum, and names are useful, I admit, lets not be derogatory to anyone.
Love to all out there, Maria -
While reading through the thread “Does TR Need A Mission Statement”, I was spurred into remembering this thread.
Once again I’ll re-iterate myself and say that we don’t need labels, we just need to be able to get polite messages of info. out to the public in words that they can understand. After seeing all of the off topic posts in the abovementioned thread I can see the damage that labels have done here. Society is too over-analysing these days, have a read of my earlier posts in this thread as well and have a re-think girls about what I have suggested/said and then look at/remember the war of words that went on in the (once again) abovementioned thread.
Let’s all get back to the basics and promote ourselves as GOOD, funloving people with a flair for life, whatever our own journey involves. That’s what this is about, nothing more.
I’m so upset right now that I could cry, stop the rubbish and let’s get on with this, PROPERLY.
Peta A.
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Quote:I’m so upset right now that I could cry, stop the rubbish and let’s get on with this, PROPERLY.
Peta A.Peta, my feelings exactly.
I’m on the brink of making a whole heap of these labels banned words in the forum. That way people can’t make a living here of dividing things up into labelled boxes where only they can define what the boxes mean.
The more I think of it…. what a good idea would that be…TR without labels!
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Well certainly I’m against labels at the moment. At different times in my life I have been all of the labels, and as I stated before the main issue I have with them is that they come with a pre expected set of behaviours that are not valid and not even agreed apon. My final wry observations regarding ‘authorititive sources’ is that these definitions are how OTHER people define and categorise us . How do we wish to define ourselves?
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My understanding was the word ‘transgender’ was coined in the late 70s/early 80s so as to better define those of us who experienced a strong gender dysphoria and were traveling to live in that gender role in which they felt most comfortable. My understanding was it was very specific.
Unfortunately, the word was quickly adopted and adapted to apply to all and anyone who showed any expression of cross-gender behaviour, and the never ending continuum.
Whilst we need to apply any label to ourself, that label will be corrupted – I remember when the Whitlam government came into office and established the Dept of Ethnic Affairs. Within 6 months the word “ethnic”, which had not existed of the vocabulary of the general community became an abusive and derogatory word.
The medical fraternity has a need to ‘classify’ us. Once classified, the psych fraternity then needs to analyse us and theorise the why. No. If we have some psychological distress or barrier which impedes our living a fulfiling life, then fine; go and seek some good professional support. But I read so many saying they are happy and fulfilled being able to simply be themself. Happy for you.
The labels are needed by others. When we apply a label to ourself, we’re limiting our options. I’m a woman who was born with a genital aberration which I was able to have corrected. I could argue I was born with a chromosomal aberration also, – a long arm deletion of an X chromosome – I’m happy with that explanation. We can offer many and diverse explanations as to why we are. No two zebras have the same stripe pattern (like fingerprints). We’re all different.
For me, my Chinese horoscope explains everything. I was born after the last full moon of a YANG year. The other 11 characters which make me who I am are YIN. Silly nonsense?
Whilst we continue to apply labels to ourself, be will continue to be defined by those label
To finish, I am from a time when a TRANNY was a transsistorised radio – they were great because teens could listen to what they chose on the radio, without necessarily upsetting parents etc with the horrible noise. As transsistors have been replaced by microchips should be now call ourselves “chippies”
Lets other people waste their time debating the meaning of labels. I’m living MY life.
Love and hugs
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Quote:Let’s all get back to the basics and promote ourselves as GOOD, funloving people with a flair for life, whatever our own journey involves. That’s what this is about, nothing more.
Well……… my initial reply to said thread was “fun loving” but it got DELETED! so… I did what was expected of me here, which was take life too seriously. 🙄
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I don’t agree with labels.. I’m just me and dont consider myself as anything but that.. Yes its true the medical profession and others will need to identify with a select criteria.. but that’s just to slot people into a group if treatment or understaning is required.. Strange .. I believe we girls just know each other by our names and not the “Groups” we fit in.. [img][/img]
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After reading all the posts on this topic, I can catergorically & unequivocally state that I’m………………………………………….confused! Anyway, I’m discovering just how much I don’t know. I’m learning fast though!
Take care everybody.
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Here is a booklet that was produced in 2008 by Queensland Health.
It is made for Companies and Service Providers who may encounter people from our community and offers advice on to how to serve them.Some members may find it an interesting read…
Supporting Transgender and Sistergirl Clients (25 page pdf, 741KB) link
A quote…
“Who are trans people?
The term trans is used in this resource to represent people whose
gender identity is outside or crosses the social norms of ‘man’
or ‘woman’, including people who identify as transsexual and
transgender. We all have a gender identity. It is an individual’s
sense of being male or female. However a trans person’s gender
identity is different to their biological sex (the categories of male
and female defined by an individual’s reproductive organs or sex
chromosomes).
Definitions of five different trans identities are provided in this
resource. However there is a much larger diversity of identities and
terminology within trans communities, including many who do not
identify as trans but simply as male or female…” -
For me, the real problem with labels is that people seem to become too sensitive if anyone happens to use a label that they choose not identify with. There have always been those who cannot empathize with another’s “world” and then refuse to consider that another has a different view of life to theirs.. I am not talking about abusive people here , just the insensitive.
What were ” we ” before Trans( sexual,vestite, gender) were coigned? Does it matter? The gay community absorbed the word queer into there lexicon and now it lacks the venom it once had.
I also think that many of us are probably quite careless when it comes to labelling others in our Society. This is usually done without any malice but can be insensitive. I have worked in the Disability sector for 15 years and often hear people described as ” he is autistic or she is Down’s syndrome “. Have any of you ever said this sort of thing? This implies that the label defines everything about the person whereas ” he has DS or autism” allows for a person to exist apart from their label.
The way things are said makes a difference. I , for instance , have no problem with seeing myself as ” deviant” in Sociological terms but refute the label of being a deviant. It is a distinctly different thing.
I propose that we all harden up a bit, accept that life is and always will be unfair and at times hurtful and get on with our own lives , try to treat others well and enjoy the diversity that nature has given the Human species. Life is too short and interesting to worry too much about what other people think of us. -
sick of the label discussion? you may or may not agree with the views and definitions in this video … but it sure is another aspect of labels:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NzfALfk8rU&feature=player_embedded
enjoy!
