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More feminine than the girls?
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Rachael_5 wrote:Hi I think it a pity that the modern woman has adopted a more male version of dress, jeans, slacks, flats shoes etc.
i wouldn’t agree that it is ‘more male’ version, jeans for example have styles which are clearly more feminine by being of a tighter fit to accentuate legs, thighs and buttocks. ballet flat shoes are cute and easy to wear for a much longer duration – and less bandaid and healing time required – than heels. tops with much shorter sleeves (for showing arms) and plunging necklines (neck and cleavage) won’t suit men except as muscle tees. casual wear is very practical, comfortable, quick and not much effort required to put on, and although not ‘glammed up’, can still bring out your femininity.
that being said, i grew up in the 80’s in an asian but western country where women had already adopted jeans and slacks as the normal attire and nice dresses were reserved for church and formal events. the 90’s which i had spent in sydney’s northern beaches shaped my style today where i am most likely going to spend all weekend in jeans, shorts or skirt and a surfie-style singlet or tee. or sportier clothes.
Rachael_5 wrote:Males tend to be more courteous to a woman in a dress with nice hair and heels, rather than a girl in jeans, sneakers and a slapped up hair. I have experienced this whilst shoppingmy experience is that gentlemen will always be courteous to women regardless of how they are dressed (see above for examples). it is always best to reward them with a smile and a polite thank you. from my observations, Gen Y men have lost this trait, sadly there are few gentlemen among their ranks
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Hi
I think that other girls have expressed my thoughts better That I can however Martina has captured it well“I wonder whether we can one day just choose to go out dressed as either gender (or both) and no one will turn a hair. But there I go: wishing again.”
People have the right to dress as they wish. In male made I dress as stated earlier by Noeleena this is because I am not concerned as to my appearance, how ever when dressed as a female I do care about appearances. It would be fare to say the same would apply to GG Females only through there life care of appearance is more inbuilt.
Yes as stated by Clair Op Shops provide a very valuable service to people like myself.
Thank you for your responces -
“I wonder whether we can one day just choose to go out dressed as either gender (or both) and no one will turn a hair. But there I go: wishing again.”
At the risk of starting an entirely new conversation then,
Would we really be interesting in dressing up if a) Nobody cared or b) If it was normal?
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Quote:. “There have been so many times when I’ve been on the street and I realize I’m the only one in a dress and heels. I reach for those things that are more feminine than a genetic girl would go for. The stakes are higher for me because I wasn’t born female so I don’t take it for granted.”This interesting thread has highlighted the diversity in how we seek to express the feminine side of our gender. It is a diversity without right or wrong. The robust discussion clearly shows our need to express ourselves as we want; free from stereotypical constraints imposed within or from outside our community.
But reading through the thread there is perhaps an aspect to being “more feminine than the girls” that we haven’t explored.
I believe there is often a big difference between “how I dress to feel more feminine” and “what others interpret as being more feminine”.
“how I dress to feel more feminine”
Dressing to feel more feminine is driven by a picture we have in our mind of what it is to be and to appear female. This is a picture that in many cases has been built over a lifetime of conforming maleness so the picture is rarely an image of contemporary women. When we have the opportunity to express ourselves in this way it undoubtedly makes us feel more feminine.“what others interpret as being more feminine”
On the other hand what others interpret as being more feminine is not something we control – it is a cultural and societal stereotype that people use to ‘read’ us. Being feminine in this context extends far beyond a choice of visible (or even hidden) clothing.Being perceived as more feminine in India will not look the same as being more female in Denver (I speak from personal experience there!).
Quote:As an example consider the wonderful opportunity that Balls and other formal events present for us to live out our feelings of femininity. But at every such event I expect you will meet images of femininity who sit with their knees far apart – which of course signals anything but femininity in our contemporary gender stereotype. To misquote Kristyana “There’s a fine line between overdressed and tragic”.
Sadly the two aspects to being feminine rarely align.When we hope that “women would dress more femininely” we are trying to bring the two views together; trying in vain to engineer things so that what makes us feel more feminine is perceived by others in the same way. As many have remarked in this thread, that is just wishing. It is unreasonable (and futile) wanting to change how women present in our society.
But some of us have posted about a different attitude to our presentation in public. On reflection perhaps this is a different way of reconciling how we feel about femininity so it matches the gender others perceive.
Perhaps what has happened to me over the years is that I’ve changed the model in my mind about what is to be “more feminine”. Like Maya I learned to appreciate that casual clothing brings out my femininity and is interpreted equally as feminine by others.
I can recall the time in the past when I would walk past those casual clothes in the shops heading for the short skirts! The reverse is now true. I still love to glam up – who doesn’t? – but now I feel equally feminine in tight jeans and a revealing T as I do dressed up for TransFormal.
If you can’t change society then another viable option is to change your idea of femininity!!!
To close I can quickly answer Jordan’s question:
jordan wrote:Would we really be interesting in dressing up if a) Nobody cared or b) If it was normal?Yes – because for me it is normal and I find that no one cares. End of discussion (and yes it was off-topic – new questions always belong in new threads!).
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A/A hits the nail on the head IMO, there is indeed, often a gap between how we perceive femininity and how others perceive it but that is true for all women I think. There is a herd mentality in fashion trends and I for one have trouble in seeing myself as 62 and have a desire to dress as a much younger woman would. 20,s styles just looks ridiculous in public and so I content myself to an occasional ” dressing up ” session at home if the feeling comes over me .
I am not afraid to admit that there is a sexual component to those nights but hey, why should I or anyone not have a sex life? I have no partner and while I would prefer to have another human being present , the reality is that I don’t and so who is to say what is suitable way to have that life?In my everyday life I express my femininity in accordance with usual social trends of maybe a woman of 45 EXCEPT that I do my hair in a more dated way than most women I see around me. A look on Youtube will show that SOME women curl there hair and as it is MY FETISH, I do as I want!!! Go the 1960’s!!!!!!
For me, the addition of certain objects can make a huge difference to the femininity “game” ( for it is a game, a performance that all women ( as well as men) play, whether it be the main game or a counter game…we call it PERSONALITY!) A large necklace and earrings, curls in my hair, lipstick or even a bobby pin, are heavily gendered objects. Add these to a round neck T shirt and jeans and Volleys and it says “woman”. It is only recently that I have dared to be so obvious . I remember the time I wore red sox for the first time, I was sure the world would come crashing down around me!
The more you are seen out and about the more others accept you as being YOU, it is the sudden change that rattles people. It does not have to be high heels and a tiara to get the message out there!
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ClaireStafford wrote:Same with clothing, girls can select what to wear, pants, skirts, dresses. Generally males can’t. Please, don’t point out kilts. We grew up with no choice so if we wear dresses and skirts more often there is probably a deep rooted psychological reason for it, we want to!
ClaireI am sure I have read somewhere that women are the Transvestite sex because they can dress to change their appearance.
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The term Transvestite is exclusively used for males as women don’t have the restrictions on clothing choice that we do and it behooves no benefit for us to start a “it’s not fair” whinge as we have male privilege to balance things up!!! In the end it is our choice what we wear nowadays, it is only a matter of how courageous we are!!
Moderator: This thread may be wandering from the topic of “More feminine than the girls”.
Please don’t let this happen!
Since some cannot read… any off topic posts in this thread are now just being deleted. Please start a new thread if you want to discuss anything other than “more feminine than girls”. -
Sara_Timms wrote:I am sure I have read somewhere that women are the Transvestite sex because they can dress to change their appearance.
Well, not quite. Women, well some women, can dress and use makeup to change their appearance but not to change the appearance of their gender which is the reference intended for the word Transvestite. This is evident if you consider the word broken down into its Latin origins means Trans ‘across’ and vestire ‘to clothe’. From my hazy memories of Havelock Ellis and various papers I believe it originated in early 1920’s Germany.
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Sure I want to be feminine but I don’t want to be more feminine than today’s woman.
Sometimes I think I try too hard to be a female, I want to be and to look feminine but not to be looking more feminine than today’s woman. Let’s face it if I look more feminine all I’m going to do is draw unwanted attention.
Until recently I had never owned a pair of slacks and then once I did it took ages before I would venture out in them because they didn’t make me feel feminine. I have now come to realise that slacks or jeans worn with the right top can make me feel just as feminine as wearing a skirt. Buying female jeans made a huge difference.
My friends say I still look feminine in slacks or jeans. Most women these days wear don’t wear skirts or dresses so I guess I need to move with the times.
I want to be feminine but I also just want to blend in, I think there is a very fine line between being feminine and being over feminine. -
When we try to be more feminine than cisgendered women I think we end up walking a very fine line towards becoming more of a drag queen. Not that that is a bad thing but there is certainly a time and a place. If you want that kind of attention go ahead, just isn’t for me. At least not in public anyways.
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I’ve followed this thread over its “life” with some interest and many valid points have been made.
I know I can never be truly “feminine” and yes, I do agree that to “blend in” in the shopping centre requires dressing down to something a little less formal than what constitutes Caty’s wardrobe. I’ve always taken the stance that I can wear pants as a male anytime, anywhere, so when “Caty time” arrives, I like to dress as femininely as possible. Sensual lingerie, high heels, make up, perfume etc. Amply illustrated by the evening gowns and mother of the bride outfits that profilerate in my profile photos. (we wont even discuss the “period fashion freak” part of the above)
So to those than can and do, all the best to you as you saunter around “Westfield Somewhere” looking and feeling like Ms Inconspicous. Given a professional makeover and appropriate clothing, I’d probably like to do the same. This may or may not work, with the latter happening a soon as I opened my mouth.(Booming male baritone, with its birthplace in the outer at VFL footy grounds in the 60’s and 70’s.)
So as much as the “getting out in public” stirrings are getting stronger, (have not done so for 20 years, Seahorse Ball last year excluded), ’tis best I resist this temptation and just continue to be Caty in private.
Happy dressing everyone.
Caty
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My argument is that we can be both without feeling as a fraud in either mode. There are no rules, if we want to be free then we must make our own rules and really, the opinion and beliefs of others is none of our business.
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Most certainly do whatever you want. I’m certainly guilty of exaggerating my feminine expression, if I’m gonna dress up I may as well go all out right?
I love the fact that there are no rules with it all. In fact if you aren’t into defying society then maybe crossdressing probably isn’t for you.
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It can certainly be seen as a subversive act as ( she says, valiantly trying to stay on topic and so avoid an ear boxing from AA!!) it defies the gender duality . But being” more feminine than the girls” can end up looking like a piss take to some women. I wonder if this subversiveness is what triggers so much anger in some folk? The ” over dressing” of some of us ( mia culper at times!) does smack of fetish, a subject I know is taboo in some circles but is an undercurrent in many Trans people I believe! ( I am admitting nothing!)
Maybe others glean this from our demeanor despite our denials and so find it distasteful to be around? -
I have commented here before but I would add there’s a time and a place for certain things and if you get I wrong it’s obvious to all. I don’t think that we are really any different from other female expressions at all. There are barbies at one end and body building biker dykes the other . Self expression through dress sense is not the isolated realm of the gender diverse.
I will say we are normally divergent but many of us try hard to be the best us we can.More femme than the girls?
Nope just the same in as many different ways!
