-
Trans community splits from GBLIQ
-
Hi Alice and Mari
Thank you for your replys. You both have shown even more that the Trans issues have nothing to do with the gay or les issues.
What you have proven is that some of us are one of the following ;
1. Trans and Gay
2. Trans and Les
3. Trans but neither Gay or LesThis means that more than ever our Trans issues have nothing to do with the gay or les issues.
For those of us that come under 1 or 2 then would belong to the gay and les to look at issues that relate to partnes and the way they see their sexual side of their life.
Trans issues cover topics that relate to just trans people, and this issues are the same if we are CD/TS/TG.
This is where we seem to be looking at it from the wrong angle. We dont need to fight for same sex marrage for example as the gay and les groups are already doing that. If we want to support that issue then thats where joining the gay/les groups as well would cover it.
If we can stop looking at the differences between us as in CD/TS/TG and start looking at what issues are the same.
Hope this helps.
xxxx
Kelly Jones
-
I would like to theorise about something that pertains to the GLB and T* communities and may or not be part of the reason that the GLB community is willing to offer us the shadow of their umbrella yet seem to be otherwise pretty much disinterested in us in every other way. What has cross gender behaviour and the core business of the GLB community have in common? Okay, maybe I’m being a bit imaginative here when I ask because what exactly does being gay/lesbian/bi have to do with cross gender behaviour? Isnt the whole basis of GLB about sexual orientation, and what the hell does that really have to do with the subject of gender transgression?
Okay, this is sounding a little heavy so maybe we can lighten it a little with some explanation. From some study of the GLB community, I have noticed something quite interesting. On the one hand there are the straight acting gays vs the louder flamboyant/effeminate types, and in the lesbians, the more prominant butchdykes vs the femmes. Something similar occurs in the bi community too though I will admit its a little harder to pick and understand. What has this to do with us? Think about it, arent they applying gender expression to aid in the search for suitable sex partners and relationships? Used as a social display, this also assists in relating to others of a similar persuasion to their own.
Think about it more, when a transgendered person is assualted or killed, why is the victim nearly always seen as a ‘poof’ or ‘homo’ or something similar? And if the case gets to court, why is the ‘gay defense’ nearly always the first thing used as a defense? I know Im harping on this, but its important.
Think more about the GLB and their use of gender transgressive behaviour, then think about the T* community and our own use of cross gender behaviour and display. Ours is to show identity, theirs is linked to their sexuality, unlike ours.
Okay, Im gonna throw a curve ball and draw your attention to something interesting. In the 60’s, Dr Harry Benjamin, the father of transsexuality wrote a book called “The Transsexual Phenomenon” ( http://www.symposion.com/ijt/benjamin/preface.htm ) in which he postulated much about transsexuals, transgendered persons, transvestites AND HOMOSEXUALS, indicating that they all were alike in context while different in substance. Yes, I said that.
No, I dont believe that homosexuals are T* persons in denial or that T* persons are homosexual, but Dr Benjamin postulated that the 3 were linked in their use of cross gendered behaviour, in different manners.
Okay, so what has this to do with the GLB vs T* debate? Think about why the GLB community is willing to give us a scrap or three but unwilling to really stand up for us? Think about the screams from the Gays in particular if we were very vocal about Dr Benjamins’ work and theory? In my experience, no gay really wants to be even considered transgendered. The whole premise of being gay is a love of men and same sex orientation, isnt it? I cant see a gay man giving up his penis, can you? Yes, a transvestite may be same sex oriented and unwilling to seperate themselves from their appendage, but thats cool too, because it is one of the underlying signs of being transvestite instead of transsexual. The gays cannot understand someone giving up something that is so quintessential to their own lifestyle.
Post-operative transsexuals and many transgendered persons who take the hormone option are of no use to the gay community, a sweeping statement I know, but one Im willing to make.
So, why is the T* so on the outer with the GLB? You tell me. I dont see what is so different between G, L, B, and T* really. Their use of gender transgressive behaviours makes them more like us transgendered persons than they realise or are willing to admit. We are the poor cousins in the GLBT relationship and I dont see the point in breaking us up like I once used to, BUT, we have to clarify what the T* really is, in all is varied glory, and EDUCATE THEM in our identity and the similarities that we of the GLBT share, so that they can get off their high horses and spread some of the ‘love’ so to speak, the fruits of their politicing and work in the community in acceptance and rights to live in a world that we all share EQUALLY.
-
A thought…
Okay………… consider this. Any form of gender expression that is non-heterosexual in nature could be, under Harry Benjamins proposition, described as gender transgressive, or ‘transgendered’ behaviour. In his book he described 3 specific subcategories of ‘these transgenders’, specifically transvestism, transsexualism and homosexuality, each a part of the spectrum of sexuality.
Riddle me this Batman, if homosexuality is as he propositioned, and take into account his standing in the medical community, wouldnt that then make GLB a part of the T* spectrum instead of the other way round? Educating the GLB in the fact that there is more than one form of T* would go a long way to ending the factional differences between partners of what could be a very powerful political alliance.
Identity education is the key, for us T* folk, for the GLB, and for the world at large.
-
I hear some people saying how they’ve been well supported in GLB circles.
Others haven’t.My brother is gay and has told me of gay people who are transphobic.
I’m aware of lesbian transphobes also.Not to suggest that all Gay or lesbian people are transphobic.
I was at a lesbian event recently and picked up on a trans person being incredbly withdrawn.
Two other transsexual people, whom i happened to be with, picked up on it also.In hindsight….the three of us rolled up, and invaded a corner of space where we changed the dynamic of the group that was already sitting there.
They withdrew.
Who knows why?…group dynamics and the psychological effect of how new elments in a group can threaten other people’s security within the group.
And it happened in an established group of gender variant people because new folks turned up.
So it follows that gender variant people can also threaten other gender variant people.
Throught the night new gender variant people arrived, the group evolved and we all had a good time.
Except for the two that took off.The same thing happened to me on saturday night with a straight group.
It was at a party and i was the new girl.
So my friend and i turned up and changed the group dynamic from quiet and withdrawn to talkative and chatty, and a bit of a hoopla.
Woohoo!!!
Two people went silent and eventually one of them tried to single me out……waving her finger at me angrily.
woohoo..I’m intimidating someone.
It didn’t raise her status in the group or damage mine, in fact, she left early and everyone who was left had a good time and stayed longer than they normally would have.
Had I told them i was trans the outcome liekly would have been very different.My dogs did the same thing when a new puppy came into the house.
Growl..grrr…fight…etc.
But they evloved and now get on famously.I think the same thing happens in GLBIQ…whatever you call it….include t…gently
Wether GLB includes us politically I don’t care.
I do care bout friends that i make in those communities.I accept that there are people who are transphobic, some being gay or lesbian.
Some are just insecure fuill stop and will pick out trans folk as easy targets.I suspect that those trans women who are centered within themselves and self confident will find their way in GLB in general.
Just being centred in yourself goes a long way.
Perhaps changing GLB political paradigm may be more about gentle change than large shifts.
Look at countries where there are huge changes in political landscape and the types of violent turbulance that such uphevals bring.Claire
-
Claire said..
Quote:I suspect that those trans women who are centered within themselves and self confident will find their way in GLB in general.Just being centred in yourself goes a long way.
Never a truer statement said, just look at our wonderful Jade Starr for example, and what she has been able to do is a good thing for her, but unfortunately, the trouble for many of us is that we dont identify with them because we arent them, not gay, not lesbian, not bi, just like my jousting partner Alice, and being like that is cool too. I want it to feel right for transgrrls like Alice to feel at home amongst the GLB and for them not to treat her as a lesser person than themselves, because, right now, they treat us transpeople the same as the white Americans treat their black people, native american indians and immigrants…
Maybe a GLB that seems to be wanting to wash its hands of us transgendered should take a good look and see just how similar we are to them in our uniqueness.
-
Quote:Mari said..
…… right now, they treat us transpeople the same as the white Americans treat their black peopl…………….
.
Sounds quite positive! You can look forward to a ‘transpeople’ being elected president of the organisation very soon then.
Fortunately they’re not treated like Australians treat native Australians otherwise they’d be standing in the supermarket line with a DHS voucher in their hands.
-
FionaAlexis wrote:
Quote:You can look forward to a ‘transpeople’ being elected president of the organisation very soon then.Yes, a transperson could be elected president of the GLB, but only after we transpeople turn the GLB on its head in the same manner as the black community did in the United States. Even after they did so, black americans still outnumber every other race in american prisons and too many are still not living the american dream, subsisting on low wages and charity.
The Obamas and the Tiger Woods’s are the exception rather than the rule. Just because Obama may be chosen to represent his political party (many would say because of a lack of other suitable candidates… I mean, who is really gonna elect Hilary Rodham Clinton again, and I say again, cos she was the puppet master behind her hubby Bill…) doesnt mean that he is gonna get elected to the presidency.
-
Quote:Even after they did so, black americans still outnumber every other race in american prisons and too many are still not living the american dream, subsisting on low wages and charity.
My apologies. I didn’t realise that transpeople outnumber other minority groups in GLBQ prisons – in which case it’s a totally valid comparison.
-
I found your comparison between the treatment of ‘transpeople’ by GBLQ and ‘the treatment of black Americans etc. by American whites both a gross exaggeration and objectionable on a number of different levels.
But I’ve now made my point and I’ll leave you to it – and I’ll go back to my other inanities.
