Adrian
Forum Replies Created
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The Guardian has a commentary titled
Silencing Germaine Greer will let prejudice against trans people flourishhttp://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/oct/25/germaine-greer-prejudice-trans-people
The article by Zoe Williams is worth reading in full.
Here are a couple of extracts:
Quote:Those who would deny Greer a platform have made arguments of varying effectiveness. One is that her views are hackneyed, and need no broad airing: this falls down because Greer wasn’t invited to talk about transgender issues, but rather women and power in the 20th century. Another is that her ideas incite violence against trans people, which Greer rejects as she has never advocated a hate crime; she’s on shakier ground here. Anti-trans violence – real and growing – is predicated on the idea that being transgender is wrong and unnatural. To foment that violence, one need not literally call for it, it is only necessary to dehumanise trans people by rejecting their own account of themselves.Quote:Those are both moot points, however, since the real root of no-platforming is this impervious modern absolutism. It was devised for racists and fascists, on the basis that moral legitimacy was conferred upon repellent positions just by allowing them in to debate.Quote:it is precisely because there is still so much prejudice against trans people that nobody should be silenced. In terms of social ideas, you progress from A to B – from saying homosexuality is aberrant, for instance, towards homosexuality is normal – not by shutting down homophobes but by argument, persuasion, rage and ridicule, openness and candour. -
FionaP wrote:Then she has the cheek to say men can’t be women.
Before we attribute things to Germaine Greer it may be prudent to listen directly to her opinions.
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September 2015
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FionaP wrote:There is no harmonious existence as a transwoman.
Fiona,
From your postings elsewhere it is clear that you are not having an easy life.When you post asking if people agree with you you should be prepared for people to disagree and to accept their feedback. If you don’t accept feedback gracefully then others will stop sharing with you.
Your assumptions about the inability of transwomen to live harmoniously are patently untrue. Repeating the assertion does not make it fact.
My advice is to listen to others, particularly those who are getting over the road blocks in life. If you reject any idea that doesn’t match your views then little is going to change in your life.
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An interesting and enabling line of thought Sarah.
Whilst in general I have problems with Greer’s slant on things as she saw femininity as a weakness of women not a valuable asset.
But in this instance perhaps I agree with her argument that surgery does not turn “man” into ‘woman” (and visa versa).Sara_Timms wrote:This space is where transgender feeling and behavior can exist as being authentic. The strength of the transgender authenticity is that is based around an individual sense of themselves and not social norms of what is a man and what is a woman.Just a thought.
A very profound thought. Thanks!
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FionaP wrote:So, what do ya think?
I think the confrontational point-scoring approach to mis-gendering you propose is completely the wrong way to go.
Society, in general, genders others as male or female on a number of subtle clues.We don’t decide if people are male or female by looking at their birth certificate or asking them to drop their pants.
Often we don’t like the gender others perceive in us, but as transgender people no matter how passable we think we are, we will always present some mixed gender signals to others.
The best approach is to assume that everyone is gendering us in an honest way – and if we don’t like the perceived gender that is because they are being asked to make a tricky call and they get it wrong (by our understanding of our true gender).
Assuming, as you propose that every mis-gender, such as being called mate, is worthy of an aggressive response will just make life unnecessarily difficult.
In the rare case that the misgendering is intended to distress, then any acknowledgement of it (however clever the response) gives the low life the satisfaction of seeing they have made their point. Ignoring low life completely is, I find, a much better strategy.Understanding the difficulties we present to others in determining our gender, and being tolerant about their mistakes, is not cowardice.
It is a strategy for a more harmonious existence as a trans person.
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Karen,
You don’t give any indication of what change(s) you were hoping for that hasn’t happened yet. the concept of ‘hormonal transition’ is a new one on me. What do you mean?
But in the HRT forum there have been several posts describing what effects HRT might have on natal males.
The article by Lisa here:
http://forum.tgr.net.au/cms/forum/F176/5691-effects-of-hrt-on-the-male-body
is certainly a good summary as you can get.But remember we are all different – and the hormone regimes that people use are widely different so you have to expect the results will also very significantly.
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August 2015
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Caroline wrote:Mx sounds like someones sarcastic attempt to classify TG people with a reference to “x ” in maths meaning the “unknown”
The actual entry states:
The Google ngram for Mx shows a steady DECREASE in use:
Hardly surprising as all the references I saw were either to Adobe Flash MX (a dying product) and discussions about the MX missile.
Smells of political correctness to me rather than a practical effective change to language.
BTW: OxfordDictionaries.com doesn’t list “en femme”
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Michelle_1 wrote:Ah ha – so what’s the opposite of “dressed”?
Unclothed, untreated, or unfinished – well thats what wwww.synonym.com claims!
Perhaps “frocked down”???
Or “en homme”.
There are just 95 posts in the forums including the word “drab”. perhaps it is something we don’t like talking about!!!!
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The people’s vote is in.
I have done a rough search of the 16000+ posts in this forum. The counts of posts with en femme or something else is as follows
121 glam ( and glamorous)
132 en femme
386 femme
888 dressedSo it seems we have a clear winner!
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Kristyana wrote:it has indeed become more and more obvious that I am not really passing as a guy even if I think I look masculine.
I posted the quote from Julia because it also seems to ring true in my life. I don’t have any great feelings that I belong “as a woman” but I certainly don’t express myself as a man much at all these days. A year or so ago I seemed to go through a tipping point where the number of “sirs” dropped off and most of the time now I seem to be gendered as female. I’m also aware I don’t “pass” too well in the conservative environment of the local yacht club – friends there do make jokes probing at my femininity. But the good news is I’ll never be volunteered onto the committee!
There is however a “gotcha” to this strategy of loosing the ability to pass as a man. And I am sensitive that it could cause some distress to some who would like to take this course. The common factor between Julia, Kristiana and myself is (I guess) that we are all blessed with plenty of natural hair. Obviously a receding or receded male hair line is going to send a strong visual signal that persistently genders someone as male. I would hate to be seen as divisive in this discussion. So maybe a long male wig is the way to go for those not so hirsute ??
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Before this all starts getting over-serious – please note the original post is in the fun stuff forum. Please keep it lighthearted!
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Bridgette wrote:I’m interested in the use of the terms “Safer and More Effective” and how its used in quoting the context of the extract?
In the chapter I quoted from Julia only says that other transexuals consider it safer and more effective to loose the ability to pass as a man.
More effective I presume refers to achieving one’s personal goals in presenting as a preferred gender. In this context I personally know people who have taken the tablets and changed their paperwork so they can live as a woman. Only to discover that society still generally genders them as man, which causes lots of stress and anxiety. Perhaps this alternative pathway is more effective at getting to the desired end point.We are all to some degree the target of transphobia and other prejudices (and remember Julia is from the U.S. where things by all account are far worse than here). It seems to follow that if you don’t pass very well as a man then you may escape under the radar of those bigots who want to bash “sense” into trans people. I’m guessing that is what is safer about Julia’s pathway.
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Michelle_1 wrote:I also don’t like using the expression ‘when I am Michelle’ as I’m one person who just presents differently.
I am always Adrian now – so the convenience of “are you going as Adrian or Amanda?” is no longer a way of inquiring about my presentation. Glam doesn’t work for me because, to me, being glamorous means putting on my best clothes, earrings, and shoes for a night out.
My understanding that “en femme” is used to imply dressing in a way that would not be commonly associated with being male. So more than some fancy underwear on under the hi-vis, but not necessarily wearing 4″ heels to Woollies.
But like Caroline, the term “en femme” grates with me. Probably because of its ambiguity (just a pair of female jeans or a bikini?), perhaps because it sounds pretentious, but mostly because it implies that that how one dresses is the essence of femininity.
Because “en femme” is so ambiguous I find it hard to suggest an alternative. It falls into the broad umbrella of “expressing your true self” – but that will never catch on in the title for a blog entry.
Perhaps we need a wider range of expressions? Glam, elegant, girly, smart…..
But lets give pseudo French a rest for while please.