Adrian
Forum Replies Created
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Quote:Facts are stubborn things and words matter when trying to talk about the facts. We humans sometimes find ourselves gripped by a vocabulary not of our making. Occasionally, this vocabulary leads to destructive ends.What a sound observation!
I am in the process of summarising a lot of the posts in this forum area and preparing a “position statement” for TR on “labels” – although I acknowledge that such a loose grouping of people is unlikely to adopt a a single position.
My reasoning is that if labels cause conflict and confusion within TR then being able to reference a TR ‘position’ may clear things up.Whilst I have no time for the growing proliferation of labels, there are some threads in the article V posted that resonate with my current thoughts. I’m going to preview them here to see what sort of reaction it provokes!
The article has an underlying theme that “people are calling themselves transexual when they are not”. This from my observation is very true. Gender dysphoria is a clinically identifiable condition, that can manifest in such a degree that adjustment, as far as practical, of anatomical sex is the appropriate “treatment”. It is this group of people to whom the label transexual correctly belongs. And because a post-op transexual is a “woman” or “man” (I hope) – the label transexual is more frequently applied to those who are on a planned journey to reconcile physical sex with gender. As the vast majority of people who associate with the label transexual are not post-op – do we really need the suffix pre-op (and post-op). I think not. They form an unnecessary distinction that creates distress to those who are prevented from completing their journey from medical or other grounds. Our brothers who are transitioning FTM are virtually all pre-op – but that shouldn’t be used to denigrate their gender dysphoria by giving them a ‘second-rate’ transexual label. So lets just stick with Transexual and throw away pre-op and post-op (and therefore non-op).
The second issue the article makes that I agree with, is that transgender has been diluted in popular usage to mean more about presentation than about gender. TR has been, in the past, guilty of doing this in trying to create an inclusive branding for the entire diverse gender community.
The consequent ‘loss’ of respect for the label transgender is, I think, responsible for people adopting the perceived ‘quality’ tag of non-op transexual. Creating new labels to replace ones hijacked by others is a pointless and never-ending task! So once again – I conclude non-op is an unnecessary new label.I think we need to simplify the label space – and stop generating more subtle distinctions that, as the article states, can easily lead to destructive ends.
Let’s go back to basics and start from gender, and define simply what undeniably exists in our community, Give what we observe simple “labels” and get on with our individual lives free from wars over words.
I would propose the following:
[ul]If you have no manifest gender dysphoria, your inner gender sits comfortably your physical sex, then if you dress you are “Crossdressing”.
If you have extreme gender dysphoria and your inner gender is irreconcilable with your physical sex, you are “Transexual”. No pre-, post- or non-op is needed.
And because gender dysphoria is not a binary condition many people in TR will lie somewhere in between being “cross dressers” or “transexual”. These people resent being labeled as “crossdressers” and shouldn’t masquerade as “transexual”. I can only suggest that we take ownership of words and proudly call this group “transgendered”
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So there we have it – a proposal for just three labels, based on gender, that I believe is equally applicable no matter what your current physical sex is. -
Quote:would it be worth having a heading on the home page saying something like” Providing a welcome for the Transgender, genderqueer, boi, etc etc,” listing all the categories in the gender diverse spectrum?
I made the ‘mistake’ of doing that on the TransFormal flier and received a number of emails from someone who found the labelling discriminated against them.
I certainly don’t believe in labels, and have decided to stick with the gender diverse umbrella at the top level of TR. When you apply for membership I give an example of the sorts of labels that might apply if you want to join. But that may even be too much!Quote:Should TR also welcome friends and family of its the gender-diverse membersfriends and family is a definite no for me – would be confusing in the forums, confusing in the chat, and would I believe greatly dilute the focus of TR. I don’t want to become another facebook! There is nothing stopping partners reading TR using their trans half’s login.
Convince me otherwise! -
Keep the ideas flowing girls…and thanks to those who have donated to help cover the cost of registering business names and taking out additional domains.
I’ve posted a poll to see if we have any consensus on the way forward yet.
Please hop over to
http://forum.tgr.net.au/cms/forum/F145/3501-501and have a quick vote!
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I just thought I should clarify.. I’m not discussing just changing a name.
To rebrand the site the name must match a domain name.
Much like trannyradio can be found at http://www.trannyradio.comthe new name has to be found at http://www.newname.com – or maybe even better newname.com.au
And because domain names have been on sale for as long as TR has been running – most of the obvious names have gone.
You can check you choice here…
http://register.albadomains.com/home.jsp -
Quote:2. I am not sure keeping ‘radio’ is actually that suitable either. The word sort of looses its ‘connection’ when ‘tranny’ is removed. As we use the internet and use the site to network er perhaps “Trans-Net” may be another more appropriate possibility?
I’m actually attached to the radio bit because I don’t want to throw away everything about the origins of the web site just to be ‘trendy’. Net might be better than radio – but http://www.trans.net has already been taken and I don’t think I want to go for the very unusual http://www.trans.net.au.
Quote:3. But keeping TR as initials only might be a solution too. (similar to DVD which basically has become a ‘name’ itself (Rather than the original Digital Versatile Disk).As far as I’m concerned TR must remain. I’m not interested in throwing away all the recognition and awareness we have built up by changing to something that doesn’t abbreviate (not shorten) to TR.
Quote:4. If the name changes I hope the color palette of the web site may change too? It seems so 70’s
Dream on! What has the name got to do with colours. Anyhow I’m very 70’s myself
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Quote:Re This topic:
there are quite a number of resources already available in Australia such as the one listed below.
I’m not aware of quite a number – but was aware of FTM Australia.
They offer an excellent source of information and this is not something where any value would be added by TR copying it (we don’t even provide that sort of structured information for MTF at the moment!)FTM Australia was helpful when I was organising TransFormal (i.e., they replied, and they posted the details on other FTM bulletin boards. BUT it was obvious that they were neither a social grouping nor did they offer the sort of community support that TR provides.
So I see TR potentially being complementary to a good web site like that by providing the social and support elements that the factual presentation lacks.
As an aside you might find their summary of transexual v transgender interesting given the discussion that occurs in our community. It shows where getting together might help the understanding of both groups.
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Quote:I’m so upset right now that I could cry, stop the rubbish and let’s get on with this, PROPERLY.
Peta A.Peta, my feelings exactly.
I’m on the brink of making a whole heap of these labels banned words in the forum. That way people can’t make a living here of dividing things up into labelled boxes where only they can define what the boxes mean.
The more I think of it…. what a good idea would that be…TR without labels!
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Amy’s last post contains two good problem statements both of which I think are worthy of a LOT of discussion. Maybe this thread went a bit feral because it was started with a solution “A mission statement” and we didn’t take a step back and ask what are the next challenges that TR might want to tackle.
The message is clear that people like TR with the feel and look that has got it to where it is today. But that doesn’t stop energetic people nudging it in the right direction. I know I haven’t been the only one pushing TR into the gender disphoria space over the last few years – with clear success. We now need to discuss “where next” so we are pushing in the same or similar directions.
I’ve locked this thread to stop another outburst of label throwing. And started two new topics based on Amy’s suggestions – where I might add, rants about labels will get short shrift.
To discuss the lack of recognition of TR in society go here:
http://forum.tgr.net.au/cms/forum/F145/3489-489
And to discuss TR catering for a wider community go here:
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This thread shows clearly how some of us need labels, some don’t want labels, and few agree on what any particular label means.
It takes a bit to ruffle my feathers….but a post in another thread throwing labels about has me hot under the collar (well actually a polo neck ).
( http://forum.tgr.net.au/cms/forum/F145/3483-483 )So, having been labeled in an unwanted and inaccurate way by someone can I add to the current discussion.
“No matter whether you need labels, or common definitions of labels…you should NEVER label someone else.”
So much of who and what we are is in our head. Never be so presumptuous to think that you can apply your labels to others, and without causing offense.
Phew,,,,that feels better already!
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Quote:but our group moderator / owner is more transvestite orientated.
Oh is she?
Bit presumptuous isn’t to take someone you don’t know and give them a label that they certainly don’t associate with.How about sticking to the original topic which was about “do we need a mission statement” rather than making things comfortable by applying arbitrary labels to TR or its members.
TR is not a fixed entity – it moves and shapes itself to the members desires.
I would suggest that labels are never a good way of classifying something that is fluid. -
Quote:Transmen don’t usually crossdress… if that …is ..even possible?
Certainly is!
There seems to be a lot of ignorance about the F2M transgender community (for want of a better label)
From my observation, and talking with them, they have all the same stages of crossdressing , transgender/(pre=op TS if you must), and transexual (i.e. a man) we do. They have all the same problems with labels as we have (see the thread on labels for that!) and of course they have very similar problems with the public/doctors/the law.
In that regard there is so many areas in common they would probably finding reading our forums as illuminating as I find reading theirs.
I’ll agree that if, by your label TS, you mean post-operative transgenders then, no, this web site doesn’t focus on them – because there are plenty of web sites out there for real women. The focus of the web site are those who are on a journey inbetween.
Amanda
Quote:I can’t believe my pizza cat picture got deleted.. that pic was amazing. aawww.PS. Flippant cartoons aren’t very helpful in a thread that is talking about something serious – sorry!
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Well – I’ve sort of been at the helm all these years and I really don’t know where we are going. TR started almost by accident – and I certainly would never have imagined it in its current state back then. We have just drifted along – getting better and better – largely because of the input and contribution of the members.
But is that a reliable recipe for the future?
Quite honestly, probably not.
So I think I see where Amy is coming from.Personally I know what the values I want to see maintained in TR
Relevant – being useful to the full gender spectrum
Accepting – welcoming everyone no matter where they are in the spectrum
Australia-wide – not restricted to a particular state or region
Unifying – resisting fragmentation of the community
Unbiased – proudly non commercialI often yearn for some way to bring the T-Girl and T-boi communities together – but that may be in the ‘too-hard” basket.
So I don’t have a vision for the future.
And as Amy asks, do we need one? -
Quote:ok…who do i sue?……my name isn’t there……”spits dummy”
Your eyesight reading yellow 2pt text on white must be a lot better than mine if you are confident enough to sue!
Sue IBM if you want!
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Time for fun! here is the Wordle for all the currently active girls names in TR!
http://www.wordle.net/[img]images/wordle/girlsNamesJune10.gif[/img]
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On a similar note, my daughter always used to talk to her friends (girls) collectively as “guys” (as in “hey guys lets go to the Marly tonight”) . So I started to adopt it subconsciously.
Now when I talk to members of our community in the same way I get some T-Girls reacting with “What do you mean – I’m not a guy”.
My take on it is we are often far to sensitive to words and we don’t take enough notice how it is said. Chill out guys!