[Adrian]

Christina wrote:

It is one of those intangible things like spiritual belief

I don’t think you can get much closer to my current pattern of thought. I have a more substantial article I’m writing – and its premise would be undermined if indeed gender was describable. So I thought i would ask the wider community first.

Christina wrote:

Perhaps , like many things of this nature , it is the question that is not valid?

I think the question is valid only because I regularly hear people labeling their gender in ways that apparently have no meaning to the listener. For as long as the big bad world needs educating about gender, we need to be able to explain it to them… but how!!!
Perhaps it is time to lock this thread… and ask another question.

[Adrian]

Jeanette wrote:

I’ve been using an Indian on-line pharmacy, and have had no problems with the quality …

Which begs a question..

How do we as consumers assess the quality of a drug bought over the internet.

After having received some very dodgy looking Indian generics on-line I don’t go there any more. Not because I know the generic can be poor quality, but rather because I have no way of knowing it is OK.

Other on-line pharmacies sell branded product from Europe and other countries where there is a strong medical regulatory regime. That’s the best I can find in terms of an implicit statement of quality. Its the same stuff as pharmacies sell here in Australia.

The truth seems to be that you don’t actually know about the quality of a medicine unless it kills you – and that is a bit late.

[Adrian]

Jennifer_1 wrote:

Hi Amanda,

II am not going to argue with you. I think it is too hard to have one all encompassing definition.

Back in the depths of this thread I wrote:

Quote:

So when we say to someone we feel like a woman, what the listener interprets that to mean can be widely different to what we meant. Being aware of the differences is probably a good start to improving our communications.

As everyone I have asked in real life (who has been able to answer) comes up with a different answer I don’t think it is fair for others to cast me as seeking one definition. I wanted to explore a) if anyone could define their gender “as a woman”, and b) in doing so explore how many different views there were.

To simply things a bit – I restrict the quest to those who identify as “feeling like a woman”. In doing so I acknowledge that where you are on any gender spectrum will influence your answers. But there do seem to be a significant number of people in the community who identify at the same gender “end” as many genetic females. I still assert that exploring the diversity in the “feel like a women” sub-group would be illuminating to everyone.

So I don’t think we have anything to argue about Jennifer!

[Adrian]

Jeanette wrote:

sorry if that confounds !

It does somewhat as the focus of the thread is to explore how you would describe what it means to “feel like a woman” simply to the wider community.
With all respect “appropriate” and “normal” is just not going to cut it in creating greater community understanding and acceptance of gender.
And empathy with genetic women is something I observe in people who would not describe their gender as “like a woman” – some of my more flamboyant gay friends for example. Its all good stuff… but is it gender?

Can anyone else actually describe their gender? Or is it time I closed this attempt as “too hard”?

If I proposed that gender is indescribable, would anyone argue with me and prove me wrong?

[Adrian]

I’ve added this event to the event calendar.

[Adrian]

I knew this was going to be challenging…and the responses so far tend to confirm my premise that gender is both intangible and indescribable.

If I might summarise the responses so far:

Quote:

A genetic female says:
“I don’t understand what you mean by gender, When you say you feel like a woman what do you mean?”

Then you reply that feeling like a woman means:

Quote:

My gender is female, that makes me a woman

Quote:

I experience feelings which I imagine women feel when they are women

Quote:

I have sensitivity towards others and their opinions even if I don’t agree with them

Quote:

How I feel is not relating to male things

Quote:

I feel normal

Quote:

I feel like you feel

Quote:

I feel love, care and concern for the well-being of loved ones

Quote:

I don’t know – I feel like myself

Tricky isn’t it!!!

[Adrian]

This content has been hidden from site admin.

[Adrian]

Linda wrote:

Perhaps the original question should be more closely defined as: “What exactly does it mean to have feelings that I feel are those of a woman – why do I have them, why now, and why do I perceive a gap/contradiction/pressure (for those who do) between how I feel and how I am able to express my feelings?”

No Linda, that is called hijacking a thread.
I’ve been very clear, the reason for this thread is just to explore in a nutshell what we mean when we say we feel like a woman.
This thread is about communicating our gender.

The fact remains, that although some can clearly rationalise that the expression is meaningless, it is used a lot.

If people use the expression (they do) then we must be trying to communicate something. Everyone I have asked this question is real life pauses for a long time and then comes up with a statement of what they think it means to them. That is the response I was hoping this thread would elicit.

Please stick to the original topic – or of course start another thread!

[Adrian]

Linda wrote:

The history of the past 2000 years demonstrates that there is unlikely to be any “nut shell”, encapsulating essentially womanly feelings, any time soon.

I totally agree – the premise of my post was that no consensus seems to exist. Which is why I think it is useful to explore the diversity of what we as a group see as our individual “nutshells”.
We need to communicate our diversity and finding the language to do so is, I hope, a possible outcome of a thread like this.

In a past job I was tasked with writing an elevator speech to describe a particular project. You only have the time between Ground level and the 2nd floor – how do you communicate what you are doing to the CEO? What is your elevator speech to describe your gender?

Because we know everyone’s nutshell will be different – there should be no need to hold back worrying if your feelings are incorrect. Everyone’s nutshell is by definition valid!

[Adrian]

This always was going to be a difficult thread to reply to – and Maya and Linda have made a great attempt.
Perhaps it would be easier if I refined what I hope to hear from others.

Imagine you are having a conversation with someone, and you want to communicate to them that you have a gender identity inside that you associate with being “that of a woman”.

You say to them something like:

Quote:

I feel like a woman trapped in a man’s body
its not that I want to be a woman, its just that I have accepted I am a woman
I will never be female, but I am a woman
I also have a special mantra, ‘I am a woman’.
I consider myself to be a woman, knowing full well that I will never be a female
When I am dressed I have a woman’s feelings.
If you’re a woman, you are a woman no matter what you’re wearing or how you are presenting

I could go on – these are all quotes from our forums..

Imagine they look at you and say

Quote:

I hear what you are saying – but what do you mean when you say you feel like a woman

What would you say that would clarify and clearly communicate to them what you feel.
Obviously it isn’t going to be easy. And the train will arrive in 3 minutes so you haven’t got long.

In a nut shell – what is the feeling that many attribute to “being a woman”.

(Of course if you don’t feel that way – you won’t be able to answer my challenge!)

[Adrian]

Just over a week into our new web site and about 1/3 of our members have found their way to their new home.

To those who haven’t logged in yet – please remember the new web site uses your username (not email) as the login. Also your username must be entered with no spaces – use underscore instead (Mary_2 not Mary 2).

If you forget your login click on the “Forgot Login” link – which will then allow you to either find out your username (should you forget) or, more usefully, email you a new password.

[Adrian]

[Adrian]

One of the strongest pointers to change on the Sydney social scene is the fact that the Taxi club was forced to close due to obvious lack of support from the local “T” community.

With the rapid increase in both awareness and acceptance by the general public of gender diversity in Sydney comes a natural reduction to socialise with like-minded people. What I think we are observing is a normalisation of the “T” social scene. Granted that this can make it more difficult for those still reticent about taking the plunge into the big ‘bad?’ world – but that is becoming a niche market with a consequent reduction in opportunities.

The only suggestion I can make is to focus on what else you are looking for on an evening out (appart from being in the same room as someone else who is obviously “T”) – be it music, sexual liaisons, dance, whatever.. and go to a venue that is known for that entertainment. It’s probably what the rest of us are doing in Sydney – and you might even run into a fellow spirit!

[Adrian]

Last night was the first chance to properly test out the group chat room – with a few bugs finally put to rest. It was great to see so many members drop in – I counted 10 – with many new faces. I know a few are upset by the scope of the change on the new website – but it appears many more share my excitement for new opportunities it presents.

If you don’t see the chat room then you need to wait for a host/moderator to come on line. Their names end with **. When the host comes on the room will appear.

[Adrian]

Erica,
It was good to see you, if only briefly in the group chat room tonight.
I appreciate your reluctance to wait to group chat, but the reality is the use of a group chat room is often so low you will have to wait most times to find anyone to talk to. Certainly looking at the logs of the old chat room showed a large number of people just entering and then leaving without meeting anyone.

We hope that the integrated chat room encourages a more fluid communication either by instant messaging, or when 3 or more gather, in the chat room. It is early days at the moment and we are still ironing out technical issues – but I hope that you would always find someone to chat with and there will be less waiting around for someone to drop-by.

Erica wrote:

it should go back to clicking an icon and agreeing to the rules and enter the chatroom

As part of the 6 month development of the new web site I did a comprehensive review of chat rooms that could be purchased for the new site. I am not aware of any product that meets the requirements you have. This reflects the trend away from group chats and to instant messaging on the web.