[Adrian]

It is very noticeable in a thread like this that a lot of people announce what they are going to try – but few report back with any measurements that would substantiate the claims being made by the herbal manufacturers.

I personally have tried over the years many of the herbal preparations – and have tried to be patient enough to give them a chance to have some effect. But the only thing I can report with certainty is that the herbs do increase your weight (about 9lbs in my case) – deposit fat round your body – and as a result increase your bust measurement (by a few cm).

I believe it is a medical fact that estrogen (not estrogen-precursors) is a necessary factor in growing breast tissue (as opposed to fat). Until there is evidence backed up by actual measurements otherwise I think it would be irresponsible to allow this forum to continue to shed false hope of breast growth based on herbal preparations.

Subsequent postings in this forum must therefore contain:
Measurements (over & below breast) and weight before treatment.
The same measurements after treatment.
The herbs taken.
The time period (presumably >6 months)
Any other factors that might affect result (for instance HRT!)

Postings that do not contain this information will be deleted to avoid misleading others.

[Adrian]

It is very noticeable in a thread like this that a lot of people announce what they are going to try – but few report back with any measurements that would substantiate the claims being made by the herbal manufacturers.

I personally have tried over the years many of the herbal preparations – and have tried to be patient enough to give them a chance to have some effect. But the only thing I can report with certainty is that the herbs do increase your weight (about 9lbs in my case) – deposit fat round your body – and as a result increase your bust measurement (by a few cm).

I believe it is a medical fact that estrogen (not estrogen-precursors) is a necessary factor in growing breast tissue (as opposed to fat). Until there is evidence backed up by actual measurements otherwise I think it would be irresponsible to allow this forum to continue to shed false hope of breast growth based on herbal preparations.

Subsequent postings in this forum must therefore contain:
Measurements (over & below breast) and weight before treatment.
The same measurements after treatment.
The herbs taken.
The time period (presumably >6 months)
Any other factors that might affect result (for instance HRT!)

Postings that do not contain this information will be deleted to avoid misleading others.

[Adrian]

It is very noticeable in a thread like this that a lot of people announce what they are going to try – but few report back with any measurements that would substantiate the claims being made by the herbal manufacturers.

I personally have tried over the years many of the herbal preparations – and have tried to be patient enough to give them a chance to have some effect. But the only thing I can report with certainty is that the herbs do increase your weight (about 9lbs in my case) – deposit fat round your body – and as a result increase your bust measurement (by a few cm).

I believe it is a medical fact that estrogen (not estrogen-precursors) is a necessary factor in growing breast tissue (as opposed to fat). Until there is evidence backed up by actual measurements otherwise I think it would be irresponsible to allow this forum to continue to shed false hope of breast growth based on herbal preparations.

Subsequent postings in this forum must therefore contain:
Measurements (over & below breast) and weight before treatment.
The same measurements after treatment.
The herbs taken.
The time period (presumably >6 months)
Any other factors that might affect result (for instance HRT!)

Postings that do not contain this information will be deleted to avoid misleading others.

[Adrian]

The idea that events can be hosted in states other than NSW and SA has some merit.
To investigate how practical it is I took the current Qantas bargain fair structure and worked out how much it would cost to fly from round Australia to various venues.

If we suppose there is one girl each from
Sydney, Adelaide, Melbourne, Canberra, Brisbane and Perth
– then their combined flight costs are lowest if the party is held in…. wait for it….

Melbourne.

Yes Melbourne is the cheapest hub with a cost of $591 for the 5 girls who have to fly in.

Sydney comes second at $613, Brisbane is more expensive at $713 and Perth gets the top of the table at $1220.

This is a simple calculation because it doesn’t reflect the number of girls travelling from each state – but it shows where perhaps we shouldn’t hold the event.
Give Perth and Canberra a miss!

[Adrian]

Right.
I’ve completely lost my patience with this totally immature behaviour by a group of girls who are destroying these forums, generating lots of work for the admin, and sending other more sensitive girls scurrying for the safety of other sites (do they exist?).

I don’t consider posting inflammatory comments, then editing them out after they have gone in the digest email to everyone, acceptable.
In my view the comments should never have been posted in the first place.
And those who are just posting in anger are clearly well outside the guidelines.

I know my actions will be labeled by some as discriminatory against some part of the TG community but those who know me will realise this is not my nature. To keep these forums a vital place for debate they have to be safe, and I have to discriminate against those who repeatedly demonstrate they cannot respect the wishes of the vast majority of members.

It is a sad moment for me, as it shows I have failed in my repeated attempts to mentor these three girls…I acknowledge they have tried, but the standard reached over time is still not acceptable.

So Mari, Jenni and Jade are out I’m afraid.
I wish them well, hope they can in some other forum get together and realise that they are 3 girls on a difficult journey and deserve each others respect.
But TgR is no longer the forum for them to do this.

(In reality this is not such a bold step as jad has already deleted her profile (see above) and Jenni has previously announced she is leaving the group. )

[Adrian]

This thread started with a question
“I ask you, why isnt Cromptons remembered and celebrated”

A few brave souls actually posted on topic – and then it has just become a random posting ground.

This last post, by the thread originator – has nothing to do with the original post. Unless we are being asked to subscribe to the view that the Christian church is responsible for failure of the Trans community to stand up for its rights. This lack of focus is its death knell.

It is clear after watching many examples that starting a thread with a provocative question like this one and offering no opinion rarely leads to a healthy discussion.

From now on, if anyone starts a thread in this way (other than asking “where can I buy Xxxx” type questions) I will move the thread to a “Unanswered Questions” forum where it can be read but will not form the basis of a feral thread.

[Adrian]

:OH

Quote:

To whom were you referring to, Karen? The reference was a little too obscure for me to understand.

I could be mistaken – but I think it was just a joke. 😆 😆 😆 😆
And, yes, still off topic in a serious thread. :OT
Can we go back to the original topic please now… or the moderator delete button will be exercised! :salut:

[Adrian]

:OT

Quote:

hey
Whats going on here ?
This is the first paragraph from Mari’s contribuition as it shows in the notice :
,,,,,,,,
But ,when I go to the forum this has been shortened to :
,,,,,,
The reference to Jesus appears to have been deleted .So is this censoreship occurring on TR or a error or ?

Suzz

Not censorship…just an established set of behavioral norms that I insist on.

I feel that the original post had a quite unnecessary attack on others beliefs. I emailed Mari to let her know. This is also the second post of Mari’s that I have had to modify in as many days.

I don’t tolerate divisive postings as you know.
And yes, my patience is running thin with those who fail to read what they are posting before they press the button.

Perhaps Suzz, you could consider if repeating the original post in the forum (when it had fairly obviously been removed) was constructive posting.
I think an email would have been more appropriate under the circumstances.

I repeat this is not censorship – it is forcing standards of acceptance and tolerance that should be characteristics of our community but sadly seem often to be missing.

If moderators can’t enforce standards by being allowed to remove material then I will be left with only one other option which is to enforce a forum pre-approval on all postings by repeat offenders.

[Adrian]

These forums have a zero tolerance for personal attacks on other members.
In this instance I am not casting a judgment on right or wrong – but two postings in one day by Ella shows a complete disrespect for the admin policy.
Ella has been suspended.

The same fate awaits anyone who uses these forums to attack any other member or their beliefs/opinions.

As always my decision in these matters is final.

[Adrian]

Here we go … again…..

This forum is not to be used to explore differences in the community – only how we can unite.

The topic as it has now been restated was the one many of the posters addressed. But phrased in this way just encourages people to highlight what the differences are without being asked to suggest positive ways of overcoming them.

As such I don’t want to go round the loop again.
So topic locked.,,,

As to not understanding the effect of personal attacks I just wonder who is reading what is said.
I deleted a blatant attack on another member’s posting style which developed into a public exchange between you – resulting in the other member saying she would resign. This has happened before and quite frankly is the exact opposite of what I mean when I talk about working together as a community.

[Adrian]

Quote:

These kinds of threads tend to divide rather than unite.
I’ve seen it before, many times, on other forums.
Claire

I agree with the view of Claire and Jade – careless posting in forums does nothing to unite our community.

This thread might have run for longer if the original topic had been selected to emphasise how the community can unite rather than highlighting an example of how we sometimes divide.

I have culled some posts off this thread but left it active because some of the postings show how we can move forward in a positive way to embrace all in the community.

I intend to make it clearer in the terms of use of the forums that I will not allow them to descend into the bitch/infighting so common elsewhere.

As an example – perhaps this thread should have asked the question
If a transgendered person says they are different from a transexual how can we convince them that we are in fact all in the one community?

[Adrian]

If I summarise my own personal experience, and the factual reports of breast enhancement (as opposed to the glowing testimonials on product web sites) then I think it is fair to state:

a) The effect of herbal supplements is very limited – all you can expect is some nipple sensitivity and maybe adverse side effects like weight gain.

b) Nothing happens in weeks or months. Reports of significant breast enlargement are associated with treatment over YEARS. It takes adolescent girls years to grow breasts – and then that is associated with huge surges in growth hormone as well. It is very unlikely that an adult male would develop tissue in weeks in response to a few herbs.

c) You can improve the shape of your male breasts by appropriate weight exercises. That doesn’t add to the volume (except through underlying muscle growth). This is the only breast enhancement that has quick results.

d) Creams and tablets that actually contain hormones do enlarge the breasts – but again only over 6 – 9 months. This is a much more expensive option than taking herbs – and the risks of taking any form of hormone orally are not insignificant.

I have tried many different things over the years and can testify that it is easier to feel that the treatment has some effect (particularly if it is costing big dollars) than it is to measure any significant change with a tape measure.

Currently I am on a combination of gym exercises and estrogen cream.
It has effects, just measurable with a tape measure over months.

But those companies selling herbal treatments to the community should in my opinion be shot. They are just a cancer preying on the desires most of us have top put some real flesh in the bra.

[Adrian]

Quote:

There is a difference between being a Woman and being A Cross Dresser – one is a Woman, the other is a Man dressing in Womans clothes (or as I keep reminding people a Woman dressed in Pants and a Shirt is a Cross Dresser too.)

Ella,
I don’t understand the context of this quote and why it needed to be said.

As long as you meant that everyone who is transgender is in fact literally a cross-dresser that is fine.
But what you wrote could also imply that some members of the community are real women and so are not crossdressers.
If you, or any one else reading the quote, supports a divisive view that some transgender girls are in some way different (and better) than others then be prepared to take your views elsewhere.

In reality there is no Zeroth Commandment right to say anything on these forums.
Constructive expressions of opinion, like Dannielle’s posting on this thread will always be welcome.
But, as I stated recently in another thread, either attacking another member, or attacking the group that another person associates with, will result in a ban.

If anyone wishes to discuss this by email it may be more appropriate than posting here.

[Adrian]

After being alerted to the fact that there was another bug in the reputation system I had no alternative but to write the code needed to fairly reset the system.

Tonight I ran the reset and everyone has had their reputation set to reflect:
– the number of times they have logged on
– the number of postings they have made
– the reputation others have given them
– the reputation they have given others

Some members will find that their reputation has gone down a lot – these were the people who benefited from the last bug.

I believe the adjustment was correct – and if you are interested the log file is at files/reputation.html

[Adrian]

I’d like to agree with Karen that religious beliefs are a deeply personal subject that are best explored privately – preferably late at night over a glass of good red wine.

Many of you will know that I encourage this web site to support diversity and hope that provides a forum to understand, respect and learn from. the opinions and experience of others.
I only intervene in the discussions when someone has the audacity to state they are right and others are wrong without any hard evidence to support their case.
Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately), with religion there is no hard evidence and so I cannot accept that anyone has the right or wrong views. They are all equally valid and equally unsubstantiated.

So if you can continue a public discussion on religion without making assertions that your views are right, or attacking others’ beliefs as wrong then go ahead. There are very real issues about the relationship between religious beliefs, established religions, and being transgender that should be discussed.

But if you want to make a stronger case that what you believe is right then please follow Karen’s suggestion and take it off line to discuss it privately.

Thanks
Amanda