Lisa_W
Forum Replies Created
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Unfortunately Sarah we don’t go anywhere on your information.
It appears that your GP has confused the 2 different types of HRT. One is for postmenopausal women & the other is for MtF transexuals.
About 10 years ago the Women’s Health Initiative study was stopped early & the data published as there was a statisical increase in breast cancer in post menopausal women who had been on combined oestrogen & progesterone therapy for more than 5-6 years. There was a lot of criticism about that study because they initiated treament in women in their 6th decade of life. Approximately 10 years after the menopause. There are other concerns about how the study was conducted & analysed as well. But the women were definitely not given Microgynon 50 or even 30.
HRT for T-girls is to induce a new puberty & is often started with Microgynon 50. As everyone has acknowledged it is a contraceptive pill. It was one of the early ones. Remember COC (combined oral contraceptives) were released back in the early 1960’s. Since then they have been intensively studied & yes they have many side-effects (Raised BP, migraines, DVT’s, acne etc are just a few) but they have never been shown to cause breast cancer. Can you image the press coverage if that were the case!
I have many concerns about using Microgynon as a HRT agent in MtF’s – one of which is that the blood level cannot be measured. There are many others that are a safer alternative – but every drug has its own side effect profile, so none can be considered risk free.
However you have raised an interesting subtopic; what is the breast cancer rate in T-girls & when &/or if they should have mammograms?
Lisa
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If a person has a female name & dresses as female, am I correct to address that person using the female pronoun?
If I cannot see how the person is dressed but has an avatar of themselves in female mode & still has a female name, am I still not correct in addressing them with the female pronoun.
If I were to use a gender neutral pronoun, would that bring me into conflict with that person? As I am now denying their persona.
I recently had a discussion on another CR that was specifically for MTF transgenders & the person entering the room said “Hi guys” – was that appropriate?
This is another example of people railing against labels. But without some grammatical rules how are we to cope? Chairperson has always sounded cumbersome to me. What is wrong with chairwoman/man depending on the gender of the person involved.
OK, I can already hear the argument for the gender neutal. If that is how they feel then (& I have no argument with that) I suggest – just to help us simple folk out – that they consider a gender neutral name – such as Peta, Jaime, Terri etc. Some people have been dressing in gender neutal clothes for an awfully long time. Perhaps the modern day gender neutral person should consider the same.
I have been to meetings of people who identify as males but dress as females. While they are dressed they use the female pronoun.
Now to the TGR CR – if the room consists of members who use a female name, then am I insulting them if I use a gender neutral greeting instead of a female greeting? If the room consists of a mixed group – by that I do not mean majority but anyone who is obviously male or gender neutral – as evidenced by their name or avatar then a gender neutral greeting would be appropriate.
This has overtones back to one of my original posts – how welcoming are we?
It is an area full of reefs & shoals that would strand a skipper better than Francesco Schettino the captain of Costa Concordia. How am I to cope?
Lisa
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Hi Traci
I will have a stab (pun intended) at answering your question, although I do not have any experience with saline breast injections.
Firstly saline is an isotonic solution & so will move freely through the tissues. There will be some plumpness at the injection site but the best you could hope for would be 1-2 hours. Hardly time to get home, let alone get ready & go out. A colloid injection may last longer.
The best example I can think of is swollen ankles. Have you ever had them? That swelling is basically saline – plus a few other things. That swelling goes overnight. You pee that extra fluid out via your kidneys the next morning. The same would happen to your saline injections.
There are saline breast implants – instead of silicon ones. You are not confusing those with “saline injections” are you? The saline in the implants is contained in a fancy plastic bag & hence it cannot disperse throughout the body & of course must be inserted by a surgeon.
I hope that answers your question.
Finally; any injections must be done in a sterile fashion or you could get a very serious infection, that could result in scar tissue – which eventually contracts & therefore make your brests even smaller.
Lisa
Moderator
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I think that this opinion piece from the SMH sums up the whole debate pretty well.
Have a read & see what you think.
Lisa
Quote:Article copied here for your reference by adminTwo women walk into the ladies room of a bar and stand in front of the mirror to reapply their make-up. It could be the start of a very bad joke, and in a way it is.
For ’tis a scene from a Libra tampon commercial, with the punchline that one of the pair is a ”real” woman and the other is a drag queen. She doesn’t menstruate, and so when the ”real woman” triumphantly pulls her tampons from her handbag, the drag queen exits in a camp huff. She has been one-upped.
The tagline for the ad is ”Libra gets girls” and it has been branded offensive to transgender people, as well as sexist.
Libra’s parent company, SCA Hygiene, issued a statement regretting the offence caused and has said it will review the campaign.
The premise of the ad is odd, and I would bet my right, er, ovary, that it was thunk up by a man. Anyone who has ever menstruated can tell you periods are not something girls consider a magical sisterly bond that holds us together and keeps all impostors at bay.
But offensive and homophobic? I don’t think so.
The advertisement simply makes the rather clumsy and obvious point that women who were born biologically female usually have periods. Other humans don’t.
Leaving aside for a moment the sexual politics of drag queens, who make a living parodying women, often in a way that can be construed as misogynistic (certainly, the ones I have seen have never been shy of making all manner of jokes about the female anatomy, the famous ill-temper of women on the ”rags”, etc), let’s look at the broader point at issue.
Tolerance cuts every which way. We are all duty-bound to observe it, even put-upon minorities (and I’ve no doubt that the transgender community suffers, and very badly, from social prejudice at every turn). But tolerance is best served by everybody just relaxing and, for want of a better phrase, trying to be cool with life’s more minor irritants. And a silly advertisement aimed at women is a minor irritant.
In fact, eye-rolling at idiotic female stereotypes recycled by advertising schmucks would form a much better basis for a sisterly bond than the mere fact of menstruation.
No one denies that bigotry exists, and that it is uncool. Also uncool are ill-considered statements by otherwise well-meaning people that nonetheless stereotype certain social groups (Teresa Gambaro, I’m looking at you).
But tolerance is also threatened by non-bigots who jump at discrimination shadows that aren’t really there – because their jumpiness risks undercutting the reasonably minded mainstream’s sympathy for their cause.
Take same-sex parenting. In October the Herald reported the story of an inner-west lesbian mother who felt her child was sidelined and discriminated against by classroom celebrations of Father’s Day. With another lesbian mum, she created a forum for same-sex parents with school-age children to address the peculiar difficulties their kids might face at school.
The forum sounds a great idea – anything that helps children integrate and educates teachers to bear in mind the specific needs of their charges is a good thing. But any notion that marking Father’s Day is discriminatory is mad.
As plain as the fact that drag queens don’t menstruate is the fact that the kids of lesbian mums might feel a bit weird on Father’s Day. Just like kids whose dads have died or who have done a runner might feel a bit uncomfortable. It’s regrettable, but it’s not really anyone’s fault.
The same goes for schools that have outlawed references to Christmas and Santa, or replaced traditional Yuletide greetings with the anodyne ”Happy holidays” because they had a culturally or religiously diverse student body.
The problem with this defensiveness is not that it’s ”political correctness gone mad” – surely one of the most dire cliches of our time. The problem is that it’s counterproductive because it makes everybody else defensive. People who live in a spirit of genuine peace and tolerance (which is to say, most people) soon start worrying, and arcing up, and second-guessing themselves, and ultimately blaming the cause of their discomfiture.
Which compounds the discrimination problem and makes it harder for people to just be cool with each other.
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I originally decided to stay out of this robust discussion. I think is is great that we can have such a debate, but now I feel I must contribute.
It appears to have moved from the merits or demerits of the Libra ad; to how transgendered people should be portrayed in the mass media.
We are a catholic group (if you think I am being religious – look up the meaning) & therefore how we behave & portray ourselves is going to vary greatly. Some want to blend in with the women around us others want to stand out & make a statement.
I think that some gg’s are absolutely stylish & beautiful but others are shockers. I have the same opinion of T-girls. Should we be made to conform like a bunch of school girls – all looking, behaving & dressing the same – I think not.
So therefore the media is going to pick up on the most sensational aspect of our behaviour. Because it sells.
What is news worthy about a T-girl using a ladies toilet and not being assaulted or insulted? The ad in question has certainly been talked about in the transgendered community but has not rated a mention in the wider community? At least I have not seen it mentioned.
As someone said earlier there is truth in what everyone has said. I think that we need to lighten up, accept our diversity & rejoice in our individualism.
Every minority group feels persecuted in one way or another. Take redheads or every ethnic or religous minority. We have to expect some voyeurism from the press/media etc until we have shown ourselves to be not newsworthy ie; “normal” – what ever that means.
Lisa
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Thank you bambi
I really enjoyed that video & I wish the airline all the success that it deserves.
I was discomforted by two aspects of the video. Firstly they were all such lovely women. I was left lamenting my natal day – it is so far away! I will never be able to emulate them.
The other and more serious worry to me was the fact that one of those girls said that they work like a man & as a woman. I would have thought that having achieved as much as they have as a woman that they would think of themselves solely as a woman. Perhaps that is a cultural thing.
Bambi with your extensive experience with Thai culture you may be able explain that attitude.
Kind regards
Lisa
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Hi Kate
Gwen is correct not all oestrogens are the same. Also the risk profile differs depending on the type of delivery system – oral vs transdermal vs depot.
Microgynon is one of the many types of oral contraceptive pills used in gg’s. One of its known side effects is to have an increased risk of migraines. Therefore Microgynon may not be suitable for you. Unfortunately you have had a similar reaction to Estrafem. A different type of oestrogen.
Another delivery system may be more appropriate for you – such as transdermal patches or when they become available again (soon I hope) depot injections.
However having shown a sensitivity to 2 different types of oestrogen you may not be able to tolerate it. You will have to tell the Endo of your experience with Estrafem.
Just to complicate matters a little further Androcur can also cause headaches. Another antiandrogen that is commonly used & is an awfully lot cheaper than Androcur is spironolactone, but again it also can cause headaches. To get Androcur on the PBS (Pharmaceutical Beneifits Scheme) you would have to have your name put on the sex offenders list – which is NOT a very good idea.
From this you can see finding the right HRT for YOU is not an easy matter.
Therefore you need personal professional advice from an Endo who is experienced in treating T-girls.
I hope this does not distress you too much.
I do know a very experienced Endo but he is in Sydney. If you want details contact me directly but you will require a referral from your own GP.
Lisa
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Hi Georjette
I have just read your recent posts very carefully & I have checked out the websites that you have referred to.
This is not a criticism of you or your beliefs. But I feel I must re-buke some of the “facts” that you refer to.
I agree entirely with you that prescription oestrogen is synthetic. I think that we have gone away from using pregnant mare’s urine as a source of “natural” oestrogen. Although it is still available.
Bovine oestrogen! Hmm! We are not horned hooved herbivores – at least the last time I looked. For many years we used bovine insulin for type 1 diabetics. Unfortunately that had many unacceptable side-effects. The molecule has 4 amino-acids different from human insulin. Not much I grant you but enough to cause trouble. So a switch was made to pig insulin (only 2 amino acids different) but still there were problems. Finally synthetic HUMAN insulin came along. The previous problems disappeared. Don’t get me wrong synthetic insulin is not the answer to the “maiden’s prayers” but it is a hell of a lot better than cattle insulin.
The same can be said for bovine oestrogen – it is natural in cattle but it is not natural in humans.
You are correct again – artificial stimulation of breast tissue – no matter the source of stimulation could cause breast cancer over time. That is why I would like to see more research done into TG health – for example; when & if we need mammograms etc.
You are also correct there is not much difference between oestrogen molecules & testosterone molecules & even cholesterol – the base product from which the above are made. But as I said earlier only a few amino acids can make all the difference.
You make the leap from oestrogen to Vitamin C. That is a giant unfounded leap of faith. Oestrogen is synthesised within the body it is NOT absorbed (unless you are on HRT). Therefore there are no natural co-factors. VitC on the other hand is absorbed from some foods that we eat. And yes co-factors are involved with its asbsorption. It is not manufactured by the body; hence it is a “vitamin” – ie; vital for life. Likewise there are 20 amino acids that we do not synthesize & without them we die. Hence they are called the “essential” amino acids. And yes like a factory the body synthesizes things! Oestrogen is made from cholesterol.
You note the absence “natural enzynes” in processed foods. Thus implying that the body needs these enzymes to digest foods. Unfortunately that is NOT correct. Any food taken in by the body is broken down by the body’s own enzymes & they are not borrowed from elsewhere. That just does not make sense to suggest that they are – how can can a digestive enzyme be situated elsewhere outside the GIT (gastro-intestinal- tract)? Do you think that it would differentiate between a piece food & say your spleen? Come now; enzymes are not recruited from other parts of the body. Plus they cannot change roles.
Thyroplex! Bovine thyroid extract from NZ. It does NOT contain oestrogen of any sort. I have checked your web reference; life-enhancement.com & it does not make the claim that it does. I used their search engine to check for bovine oestrogen & drew a blank. Finally bovine oestrogen is NOT the same as human oestrogen. It may have some oestrogenic effects just the same as pregnant mare’s oestrogen & plant phyto-oestrogens do but it is NOT the same as human oestrogen & you have NO validity to say that is is recognised as the same as oestradiol in the body. That reminds me, there are three oestrogens that the human body produces – which one are you refering to?
Finally I agree with you, that most of our foods are over processed & that we would be served better by eating raw or lightly cooked food. I also admit the the pharma giants are profit motivated. However without them there would not be the innovations that are constantly occuring and producing better & more selective medicines/drugs.
My final assertion is that your underlying physiology & science does not stand up to rigorous scrutiny. Also your other reference; Dr Mercola – he is an osteopath!
I am very sorry to hear that you required open heart surgery & I hope that you make a speedy recovery from that.
Lisa
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Thank you Monique
I have only just discovered your very interesting post tonight & also TY to the girls who have contributed so far.I have trouble with the concept of primary vs secondary TG’s. The majority of TG’s show a tendency to transgenderism prior to puberty. But for various reasons the majority deny/hide those tendencies. Some brave/fortunate souls are able to standup & say that they are different & demand to be accepted. Through the force of their own personality the majority them are – but not without their own individual struggles.
Does that make one type of TG different from the other? Are they different enough to warrant different labels. Personally I think not.
TG’s are born NOT made and when & how they express their true feelings about their true gender identity depends on a whole multitude of factors.
I think that the one common feature is that when a TG knows that he/she can no longer live in their assigned gender role they MUST change. They have no choice in the matter.
What we are discussing in a round-a-bout way is nature vs nuture & all the societal pressures that are brought to bear on a young immature impressionable brain.
I do not have the answers, but just another way to view this very interesting topic. Once again TY Monique for raising it.
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Rikki
We are dangerously close to going off topic & as a consequence may bring Amanda’s blue pencil down upon us. LOL
I agree with you that there are many reasons as to when a person starts HRT. But I can assure you that “once your bell has gone off” nothing & I mean nothing will stop you fulfilling your destiny. (If you contact me privately I can give you a reference to that quote.)
You mentioned that you had to go through a “ton of depression”. I am very glad that you have been able to come through that – for many reasons. One of them is that 2 of the drugs in HRT can make depression worse. Therefore HRT would have been inappropriate for you while you were still severely depressed.
I also live in an isolated rural area & have to travel 5 hrs (one way) to seek appropriate medical care. So I know exactly where you are coming from.
I hope that you have now found your own inner peace & if you have commenced HRT then you will know what a wonderful journey it is.
Hugs
Lisa -
Emily you have really made me think about how best to answer your question? Your question can only really be answered by you & your medical advisors together. I do not think that such a life changing decision should be made with the mindset “quick what have I got to do”.
The fact that you have delayed making this decision for so long indicates that there must be some doubt in your mind. T-girls are not made, you cannot learn to be one. You are born one or you are not.
I suggest that you have a long talk with a Psychiatrist who has a lot of experience in dealing with transgender issues. If the Psychiatrist agrees with you that you should be on HRT; then he/she will refer you to an Endocrinologist. Once your treatment regime has been established; that is one that is designed specifically for you, taking into account all the risks & benefits that can occur with HRT. After awhile a GP maybe able to continue providing prescriptions for your drugs. Yes, drugs. They are powerful drugs that can have equally powerful effects upon you – both good & bad.
I ask you not to rush into the decision to take HRT & not be swayed by others. Seek professional advice. It is a life changing decision.
For me personally, it was the best decision I have ever made. But in hind sight I could not ever have denied my need for HRT – I was born to this.
I wish you well in your journey, wherever that journey may take you.
Kindest regards
Lisa
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Hi all
There was an interesting article in SMH recently – stating that FB monitors what you are doing on the web even when you are not on FB. You have to get rid of their cookies everytime you go on.Big brother is really watching!!
I ask myself – is the extra contact really worth it? Surely if friends can can keep in touch via FB then surely they can send you an email. Better still write a letter!!
My paranoia & age is definitely showing.
Lisa
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A very interesting article and written in a straight forward manner without any inuendos or histrionics by the reporter.
Thank you for posting it Fleur.
Lisa
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My all time favourite is Bal a Versailles by Jean Desprez. Now very hard to come by unfortunately.
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Hi all
Everything that everybody has previously said has some truth to it.
There are many forms of HRT. Microgynon is one form.
Oestrogen itself is a testosterone inhibitor but it is usually combined with an anti-androgen such as Spiro.The whole package is a combination of; such things as age, risk factors, past medical history & goals of the TG etc.
The source of oestrogen can be oral, transdermal or injection. It is usuallly combined with an anti-androgen plus or minus progesterone. Each HRT formulation must be individualised. So generalisation can potenially be harmful.
I suggest that each Tg must make themselves aware of the various forms of HRT and their side effects. With that knowledge then have an informed discussion with their doctor. I strongly advise against self medication & unreal expectations.
If anyone wants more info then they can contact me directly by an email.
Hugs
Lisa
