[JaneS]

WHAT DO YOU WANT TO TELL SOCIETY ABOUT YOU AS A TRANSGENDERED PERSON?

In another place (no, not the Senate) I have mentioned we as individuals taking action. In my own very limited way I am telling individuals within society about myself, including my aspirations and hopes for the future.

Some of the things I’ve mentioned, and which would therefore apply to wider society, are:

I’d like people to understand that my cross dressing is an expression of who I am and that such expression is a need not simply a choice.

Assuming a feminine appearance is something that gives me emotional comfort but I don’t necessarily understand all the reasons why so there’s no reason why I should expect others to.

I do not hate being male, as such. I have distaste for many of the characteristics that some males exhibit, such as violence, aggression, bigotry and chauvinism but that doesn’t make me a lesser male.

I love being able to talk about things usually considered ‘girly’ and thus not ‘accepted’ male conversation. Again, I don’t think that makes me a lesser male.

My expression of gender diversity does not decrease my value to society; I am who I am, who I was born as, just like everyone else.

Finally, I am an individual whose views are mine and should not be considered ‘typical’ of transgendered people. Many may be shared by other transgendered people but no doubt many will not, for like all other aspects of society we are individual human beings. We may share a need to dress in the clothing of the binary opposite gender (as Chloe said, leaving aside the semantics) but our reasons for that need are as individual as we are.

So far those I’ve given those messages to have responded well. I could only hope that the majority of wider society would also respond well.

[JaneS]

Quote:

I guess what appeals to me about them is being able to wear sexy little g-strings! And also purely for personal pleasure of looking down and seeing that wonderful shape rather than my ugly bulge!!

I’m thinking that you could use that $1200+ more wisely to hide that “ugly bulge”.

[JaneS]

Quote:

1. Do you think that generally, society accepts (or will accept) you as a gender diverse person & why/why not?

At the risk of unnecessarily associating gender diversity with sexuality in the minds of ‘society’ I believe that although most people have an opinion about gender diversity, albeit possibly skewed or illinformed, in reality just like the issue of sexuality, if the subject doesn’t directly touch their lives they don’t really care. In other words, their attitude is often “gender diversity is something that affects others so I don’t really need to think too much about it”.

Sometimes, if the subject is injected into their lives by way of discussion, personal interaction with a gender-diverse person or maybe even more intimate revelations (such as by family members) people are forced to consider or voice an opinion. That direct involvement will force them to examine their position on the issue, it might even cause them to change their opinion. My experience, on a purely personal level, is that those I’ve told about my gender diversity have overall reacted positively. The most negative reaction I’ve received is one of “Okay, so I know, now let’s not mention it again…” That said, that person’s relationship with me has not changed in any discernable way whatseoever.

I have, of course, been very selective in who I’ve told and that obviously will bias the results in my favour.

Thus I think that ‘society’ will/would generally accept me as a gender-diverse person, if for no other reason than disinterest. I would hope that personal interaction would foster interest and understanding generally, as it has specifically in my case. I know that it has also done the same for others. In my case, however, the question I pose to myself is: How much am I willing to risk for lack of acceptance? At the moment it is that question that guides my willingness to reveal my expression of gender diversity.

[JaneS]

Pamela’s post, and subsequent posts, highlights to me one of the ‘problems’ of this whole debate, that being “If we did have a voice what do we want it to say?”

It is a simple fact that no organisation can wholly represent the views of all members for each member in their own way has different attitudes to issues. Whilst individually we can put forward our own views and champion a greater cause it is hazardous to too frequently declare “we” in any argument when what is being stated may just be a personal attitude. If there is consensus in discussions between members of a group, such as the questions being raised in this thread, then a ‘we’ position can be taken in advancing an argument. Without such consensus though there is a real risk of individuals actually contradicting each other (an example of which has been mentioned) and so weakening a cause.

I am all for individual action and often take such action myself but I am always careful to phrase my comments to indicate a personal attitude, belief or understanding. It is not for me to speak for others without their consent or cooperation.

Perhaps, for those of us inclined to take individual action (and by such actions possibly helping the cause but preserving a personal situation) we need some sort of guideline. I would suggest that as a minimum when ‘we’ put forward views and comments, especially to those outside our community, we highlight the fact that we are speaking as indivuals. Like any other force of numbers, if enough individuals convey the same messages then strength in a movement (or cause) is observed. If individuals do not convey the same message then perhaps there is no cause.

I would like to point out, though, that my comments are in no way meant as a criticism of anyone who has already taken individual action, be it in writing or in personal interaction, for they have at least taken a stand.

[JaneS]

Heavens, what a disjointed ramble.

Next time around I’ll get my thoughts together beforehand as well as try to control their outpouring as I write.

[JaneS]

It has been some time since I responded to a forum post. Essentially that has been by choice. I hope I’m not out of line (though I admit I am likely to be long-winded) by replying to this thread to address a couple of issues in this and other threads. Those who know me know well that I am rarely adverse to stating my point but perhaps, as I’ve aged and slipped into retirement (okay, maybe ‘nudged’ is a better word), I’ve come to re-evaluate what is really important in my life.

Can “science” come up with a reason why I am like I am? Is it genetic or cultural? Is it possible that different scientists might have different views on the subject anyway (think climate change)? Is there a ‘cure’? Can I be ‘cured’? Do I even want to be ‘cured’?

Like many, if not most, of us I have struggled with ‘who’ I am. The first victory in my struggle was moving from a thought process of asking ‘what’ I am to acknowledging to myself that there is no what but rather a valid sentient human being asking a question. Thus, I sought to understand who I am. I thought I’d reached a degree of understanding, as painful as it was, when I sought to end my life because of the answer I came up with. It was only my consideration for others, or more correctly the impact my death would have on others I would never wish to hurt, that dragged me back from that place.

My subsequent ruminations took me to the point that something had to change. That change was finally coming out to my wife as a CD.

I ‘get’ Chloe’s reference to Pythonesque humour – we are indeed all individuals, even when we seemingly speak with one voice. My experiences in many ways are no different to others who’ve fought the tide of self-hate, disgust, depression and even self-harm, yet they are also very different because it’s about me; my circumstances, my environment and my life.

During my working career I fought many pointless battles, pointless either because they were unwinnable (for example, seeking more funding when there is simply none to be had) or when the outcome was actually not important. Though sometimes I felt better for the fight, having served the cause and “fought the good fight”, in the long run I finally realised that I need only fight for what is achievable (if only some politicians and military commanders thought the same) and for what is important to my life. I know that might sound like a cowardly cop out but it doesn’t need to be. If those things are of benefit to others then I can be part of a movement, a ’cause’, but ’causes’ rarely help me day-to-day, they rarely support my individual issues and, more importantly, they rarely house, feed and clothe me if that is required. Thus, my final accounting must be to myself first – without that ‘self’ I risk leaving a loving and supporting partner stranded to deal with the aftermath of my actions and friends and family trying to understand things I’ve never been able to understand myself.

I think that perhaps, though they may be filled with empathy for a movement that might allow them the social freedom to feel better about themselves, many of the people in our ‘community’ are also looking after ‘me’. Having 24 hours a day available to champion trans rights is no victory if that availability came from being dismissed from work for espousing one’s views. Being “out and proud” is a hollow victory if one is subsequently isolated, ostracised or alone for being so. We may make that choice and perhaps should be applauded for it but we should not be criticised if we choose otherwise.

Accept my offer of assistance if I make it, include me in your endeavours when my involvement is key but do not judge me because my response is not the one you wanted. You do not wear my shoes.

[JaneS]

Within the many comments posted in this thread there is ample evidence that just like any other ‘community’ those in the Tg version have differing views about what ‘we’ should or shouldn’t be doing for that community. I’m going to offer my views at a much more basic level.

At the risk of sounding somewhat “Life of Brian”-ish, we are all individuals and we all have a voice; our own. As has been mentioned, lobby groups tend to have a narrow agenda and their aim is generally to convince enough politicians that they (the lobby groups) can influence enough votes to make a difference for those politicians. That influence is often associated with ‘sensationalist’ events or happenings which also have a huge impact on popular public opinion. Harnessing those events and happenings and then linking them to an agenda is what makes a lobby group successful. Often, without those events the voices of the lobby groups remain minority voices. As cynical as I’ve become about politics in this country I still take an active interest and little I’ve seen over recent years has made me review my impressions.

I frequently write to our politicians, on both sides of the political spectrum, yet one sad fact emerges – I rarely, if ever, receive replies when my views or comments go against what is seen at the time as ‘public opinion’ or political expediency. The same-sex marriage issue is one example. In a similar vein, another issue was the comments made by Federal Coalition members about the ‘suitability’ of an openly-gay Federal minister to be a parent. When I have voiced views supportive or praising of politicians I frequently get an answer. That said, I am not naive enough to believe that the response always came directly from the politician and not a staffer.

I think that along with being ‘out and proud’ as a general thing (easy to say, sometimes much harder to do) what we can do is to encourage each and everyone of us to be an individual and to take matters into our own hands. Write, call or speak to our politicians, both local members and other parliamentarians. Tell them what issues concern us as individuals, and how we feel about current issues being discussed. While they might easily dismiss and/or ignore a few voices any politician who wants to retain the seat they covert will quickly notice when many voices carry the same message. That way we each become our own lobby group without actually falling prey to the fate of an organised group with a set agenda.

A journey starts with a single step. If enough of us add a similar step then we’ll all be carried a long way towards whatever it is we seek.

[JaneS]

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So I was OK with it but still…….I like the old fashion way!

A few years back, when I was involved with a youth movement (in purely male-mode) I used to refer to the young people as “guys and girls” until one day a young lady said to me “You’re pretty old fashioned. You can call us all just guys, you know.” I did from then on and never had a problem. So being called a ‘guy’ isn’t necessarily a bad thing nowadays, it’s just an inclusive term.

Like you though Jane, I too like the old fashion way.

Once, when shopping en femme with my good lady at the markets in Sydney I was included in the question “Can I help you ladies?” and a bit later on a woman at one of the stalls called me “Darling” a couple of times during our conversation. I must admit that I did get a bit of a buzz out of those experiences.

[JaneS]

My femme name came about as a result of my becoming engaged in the world of the internet. About ten years ago, during a very dark period in my life, my spirits had reached a very low ebb and I had decided that my life had no worth; that I was a freak, a ‘sicko’ who was both disgusting and revolting. One night, consumed by a combination of self-loathing and self-pity, and fuelled by a copious amount of alcohol, I connected to the internet, logged on to a search engine and typed in cross dressing. I’m not completely sure what answers I wanted, perhaps I just wanted to know if there were others like me beyond the very limited examples I’d read about in sensationalist press articles. One of the references that came up though had the word ‘chatroom’ in it so that is the link I clicked on.

Before I knew it I was at a log in screen that called for me to provide a screen name. Until that point I had never thought of myself in female terms. I had always considered that I was just a man in women’s clothes but at that screen I was stumped. Certainly I didn’t want to type in my own name and I felt another man’s name would be inappropriate, yet I had no idea what female name to give myself. I also saw that I needed to provide an email address and there was no way I wanted to risk compromise of my usual home email address. In the short term I panicked, closed the chat site and had a think about what to do.

My limited experience to that time told me that I could create a hotmail account using false details so I did just that. The next task was to come up with a name but surprisingly that turned out to be quite easy. Years earlier, as a young 18 year old, I’d seen the James Bond movie Live and Let Die in which the main female lead was played by the 22 year old actress Jane Seymour. The actress had borrowed her name from the third wife of England’s King Henry VIII. That Jane Seymour had been Henry’s favourite because she had borne him a son so the actress Jane Seymour became another Henry’s favourite. My infatuation with the actress led me to find out as much as I could about her. Ironically, one of the first bits of research I did using the internet was finding out more about Jane Seymour. She appealed to me not only for her beauty but for her strength of character and for her work with people with disabilities. I thus decided that my femme side would be a stronger character than the pathetic male host I’d come to despise. For simplicity, and to avoid any suggestion that I was trying to impersonate the still-living actress I abbreviated the name. From that day I became JaneS.

I have come a long way since those days and I credit friends I met on line with saving me and thus allowing me the time to come to accept who I am. I’d like to think I’m worthy of the name I’ve chosen.

[JaneS]

I must admit to being a Trekker; although I enjoyed the original series I think I was too young to understand the messages in the show. It wasn’t until The Next Generation that I became aware of just how clever, and progressive, the show was. I certainly recall the episode “The Outcast’ that you refer to, and the dilemas felt by the main characters as ‘impure feelings’ began to surface. There was also the discomfort felt by the aliens because of the open gender displays by the Enterprise crew. Sadly, if I recall, the female alien is forced by her people to undergo ‘corrective’ treatment and is thus ‘cured’ by being forced to conform to society standards.

The show’s creator, Gene Roddenberry, intended each episode to have two levels, the first simply a suspenseful adventure story and the second a morality tale. At a time that western society, particularly that of the US, was grappling with many social issues, Roddenberry portrayed his futuristic humans as having altruistic values that they had to apply to situations that were in fact allegories of contemporary cultural realities. Issues depicted in the various series included the value of personal loyalty, racism, religion, human rights, sexism and feminism.

Even the physical appearance of the various ‘alien’ races was designed to highlight the fact that even though ‘we’ all look different there are common basic similarities. Of course all that didn’t stop me dreaming of looking like Seven of Nine! I think it would be easy to say that one simple message from Star Trek would be “Be who you are and not who others might expect you to be.”

Next time you find yourself watching an episode of Star Trek just consider it social studies.

(Thank you to Wikipedia for filling out some of the information on Gene Roddenberry)

[JaneS]

Having now officially retired (since March this year anyway) I suppose I’ve slipped into that ‘older’ category. Certainly the ‘Jane’ of today is very much different to the one of twenty years ago. Back then I was so deep in my closet that I had to leave a trail of breadcrumbs to find my way back out. Exposure back then would have meant loss of employment, alienation by most of those close to me and maybe even the end of my marriage.

It was those factors, coupled with my self-loathing and shame, that saw me sitting nursing a loaded firearm trying to decide if I should, or could, pull the trigger. Finally I decided that, because of the location that I was in, my corpse would likely be found by a complete stranger and that I had no right to inflict that on someone else. I unloaded the weapon and drove home but that drive was filled with even greater self disgust because now I’d added coward to my list of failings.

The recovery from that position was slow but thankfully successful. I had a couple of relapses, including one when a special friend saved my life by her words, but I survived and finally accepted who I am. I preserved my secret a while longer before I reached a point where I had to tell my wife. From there I consider myself one of those blessed with an understanding and empathetic partner. She has accepted who I am and has embraced the idea. She is supportive and encouraging and together we are now making the most of our remaining years. We travel frequently and Jane always goes too. The opportunity to ‘dress’ doesn’t always present but when it does it is something we can share.

I’m not sure how much grace is involved; I’m probably as far from graceful as you can imagine but discretion has replaced secrecy, a wardrobe in our bedroom has replaced a hiding place in the garage and my wife delights in comments and jokes about what a big girl I can be at times. All in all growing old doesn’t seem so scary anymore.

[JaneS]

Quote:

All I will state here is, aside from Jane’s remarks about “wishing and a hoping” that Cathy’s wife will accept Cathy as she is, (very difficult proposition to put to a “SO” whom has just “found out”), I totally agree with Jane’s comments.

I didn’t actually make the comment regarding “wishing and hoping” – I was quoting Cathy but I see your point. That’s what I was trying to say when talking about giving her time – it is, indded, a very difficult proposition to put. The rawness of just having found out will take time to subside before any meaningful progress can be made, but progress is possible.

Like all of us I wish both Cathy and her wife well.

[JaneS]

Quote:

She needs to learn more about crossdressing and about me so that she can accept, understand and live with me and Cathy. Or have i got that wrong and she is right?

I think you are correct in saying that your wife should learn more about cross dressing. Greater knowledge might actually make it easier to understand and move more towards accepting. The challenge is to get her to want to learn more. As confrontational and disquietening as she may find your cross dressing delving deeper into it might be even more so.

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I need to be patient and give her time, space and understand that this is something that she may/will not ever understand….and if that’s the case so be it.

One thing we sometimes forget when we finally tell others of our need to cross dress is how long it has taken us to become comfortable with the idea. When I finally told my wife, after nearly 27 years of marriage (at that stage) I knew I couldn’t expect her to understand and accept instantly so I told her I’d give her all the time she needed to get her head around it. She took a while before she was willing to even see photos of me cross dressed but because I didn’t rush her she actually moved ahead really quickly. It has now been four years and we’ve been out together as girlfriends, attended support group functions as a couple and most recently have had one of our daughters join us. Patience and time does work!

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Regardless I think need to be happy and proud of who I am. I am getting there….hope she can too. Cathy

Perhaps that’s something you should tell her – but I’d leave out the bit about needing more closet space, oh, and the ‘bitchy’ bit too. 😉

[JaneS]

My suspicion with this story is that the husband knew exactly what her past was. After all, it’s hard to believe that he wouldn’t have questioned her birth documentation if it was questioned by the immigration authorities.

I think that once the marriage went ‘belly-up’, for whatever reason, he decided to feign ignorance rather than face suggestions that he knew and that he therefore might be gay, or bi or somesuch other ‘tag’ he didn’t want.

I doubt the ‘real’ story will have much interest for the media.

[JaneS]

I’ve found the Switcheroo Project rather interesting, and certainly one that might challenge the concepts held by some people.
Some of the switches I thought quite intriguing in that although it was obvious they’d swapped clothing neither looked particularly unusual. That leads to my comment on part of Suzzanne’s post:

Quote:

With the pics shown ,the girls outfit of a Tunic , Dress ,Oversize T shirt or whatever over tights is becoming a unisex ,if not male look in that I see many young men wearing spray on jeans ( many choose black ) under an oversize T shirt or shirt .Thje jeans are usually so tight they look very much like tights . I go around in similar outfits in boy mode and dont seem to raise any under attention.If more males adopted this look we may be on the way to a real change …. ?
Hugs
Suzz

I completely agree. I’ve done a bit of travelling over the last couple of years and visited quite a few different parts of Australia. The clothing worn by ‘locals’ very frequently reflects what happens in those areas. In rural communities both males and females wear very similar, practical clothing most days. In some of our ‘beachy, touristy’ type areas attire is very different. I’ve seen men wearing outfits very similar to the ‘girls’ clothing being worn by Monica and Albert with hardly a reaction, whilst the ‘switch’ made by Henny and Michael wouldn’t be particularly out of place on the Gold Coast, except for maybe the length of the coat/wrap.

I think challenging the clothing stereotypes is a great idea. Where that leaves me in relation to Chloe’s question of garments being all the same, with no gender-defining features, I’m not sure. Once again, she stimulates my thought processes.