[Alice]

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Being cohesive doesn’t have to be about being political.
It can be about just being there for each other, and making people feel good, and making people laugh, and having a laugh yourself.

What about a trans theatre group?
Or some kind of other activity where other t girls and or partners or significant others can actively participate?
And have fun.

I think that in many ways, that’s what we’re achieving with the cafe nights in Newcastle at least. There is a group in Brisbane and less frequent groups in Sydney and Wollongong. I’d like to think that over time we’ll find a few girls in all of the bigger cities who are able to do the same.

Sooner or later, I’m sure that I’ll talk my son into coming along with me on a Tuesday night.

Alice

[Alice]

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Sarah_1 said…

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Part of the problem for so many of us is simple. We just want to pass as women and drift quietly into the night. I don’t want to be thought of as man proudly in a dress. I don’t want to be thought of at all.

Something about this idea doesnt sit right with me, even while I respect Sarahs right to feel the way she does.

I’m not sure whether Sarah meant it the way that you’ve read it or not, but I read what she said is that normal social interactions would all be as female. I don’t see it as being the same as “living in stealth”, which is how I would interpret what you said further down:

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And in doing so, they may disappear and hopefully live their lives in a manner of their choosing, but when their cover is suddenly blown by someone from their past, or by mistake or by sheer bad luck, and they are assaulted, and they yell and scream about it, for example, the Brigitte Fell case, which then becomes front page, media and tabloid news, the fallout from this was a magazine article ‘How to tell if your girlfriend is a guy’ amongst other things, including an increase in exposure of transgenders generally to ridicule in the community.

All because a transgender woman didnt feel the need to be honest with her then partner about her past, which may not have been the case if she had believed that having pride in who she was and is, and while she may have been post-op and legally a woman, SHE IS STILL TRANSGENDERED along with the history of who she was, which deception and denial wont erase.

Like you, I disagree with the idea of a TS deceiving a partner or close friend. On the other hand, I see nothing wrong with being sufficiently passable that you are able to live life as if you are the female that you present yourself as, in all aspects of your daily life.

Alice

[Alice]

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2. For recoginition it needs to be legal and govt indorsed, as per my last post the word identity card anything is bad news as far as govt are concerned, plus govt spending is being slashed even HREOC are finding funding difficult.

I was thinking more along the lines of being able to have official ID such as drivers licenses issued in both names, with nothing on either to show that they are connected, but a link on the underlying system so that the system knows that they are the same person.

Yes, funding is likely to be an issue, as is privacy for anyone using the system.

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1. As you rightly pointed out “changing of the definition of ‘recognised transgender”

Absolutely. To say that one has to be a post-op TS to be recognised as transgendered is a bit over the top. Even requiring that someone be post-op is a bit over the top to recognise that they are TS, let alone TG.

In saying that, I’m not saying that a post-op TS should be denied any rights that they would otherwise have. I believe that a post-op TS should have the legal status of being their chosen gender, with every legal right that that would imply.

What I am saying is that the rest of the TG community should be treated in a more appropriate manner than is the case right now.

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2. Campaign to have the next census changed to find out how many of us there are.

That could make a lot of people who are not out to their family lie on the census forms. Husbands who aren’t out to their wives, children who aren’t out to their parents. It might give some indication of the more out portion of the TG community but it will always result in an underestimation.

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3. Campaign to have offical documents changed to reflect 3 choices ie drivers licenses M F O.

For myself, I wouldn’t want an O. I’d prefer one license with an M and another with an F, with the photos to match.

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4. Declartion of human status a document that declares you are TG/CD etc that can be signed by a JP and maybe with a photo on to.

I’d much rather see the range of people able to sign this be the same as for a passport, as that list is far more inclusive than JPs, and there is the potential for the same rule as witnessing a passport application to apply, that being that the person must be personally known to the signer.

Okay, I’m biased because I can witness passport applications.

Alice

[Alice]

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Wouldnt that then be fake identification, and thereby illegal?

It depends on whether the ID is an official one or not. I know that one seahorse member in NSW a few years ago had a photo ID membership card of a registered club, which showed the female name and photo. Such a card is generally no good as ID for other purposes because it is not an official ID card.

The voucher has been obtained and spent, of course. I simply took the letter as male and asked if I could collect the voucher. The woman looked at the name and said “Well this is obviously not you.” I said “well actually it is” and smiled. I’m pretty sure that she thought I was kidding.

She looked at my driver’s license, which showed the same surname and address. “We’re not supposed to do this. Do you have any other ID with Alice’s name on it?” (I think that she expected something like a medicare card with both names on it) “Err, no.” “Oh, it should be okay. Just write her email address here.” She then handed me the voucher and off I went.

Alice

[Alice]

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Lets say there existed, for example, a way to be able to go to a mental health or medical professional, explain your situation, and have them sign off on a form that you could then take to the issuer of all cards identificatory, the RTA or Births Deaths and Marriages, who would then issue you with a photo ID with your chosen nom-de-plume upon it(a legally registered alias) that would then be accepted by most authorities as viable ID? Just like a proof of age card for those who choose not to or cant hold a drivers license.

Interesting idea, huh?

I’m sure a few people have thought of it over the years. I thought about that about two years ago. It would also make things easier for those transitioning to be able to establish their new name in parallel to their old one, rather than having to change to their new name at some point during transition and lose their old name at the same time. This would be particularly helpful for those who spend an extended period part-time during transition, such as someone who continues to work as a male but spends the rest of their life as female for 2 or 3 years, as I know some have done.

The hardest part, as I see it, would be convincing policiticans, etc that there is an actual need for this.

I think that the one very positive point about this would be to make it clear to authorities that we are not trying to use crossdressing or transition as a way of hiding our original identity, since the process would clearly connect the two identities. The biggest problem that I see then is that there is risk of inappropriate disclosure by people who have access to the information.

Alice

[Alice]

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The point of passing is generally in our own heads

I think that this is actually the key to it. Passing and confidence are very closely linked. The more passable you see yourself as, the more confident you’ll be that you can go out without problems.

Ironically, the more confident you are, the more people will accept you as who you present yourself as, even if your presentation isn’t perfect.

Another thing that I think a lot of girls forget when they are aiming to “pass” is that a lot of real women are ugly. You don’t have to be pretty to pass. Passing is more about looking like a typical female, so you can be terribly ugly and yet very passable.

I know that some girls say that we should aim to stand out and be different. I prefer to blend in and be accepted as much as possible as the woman that I am presenting myself as. To me, that is the very essence of passing and a fundamental part of why I crossdress. I crossdress to be that woman, even if it’s only for a few hours at a time. To dress and not try to pass would not be crossdressing for me.

Alice

[Alice]

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What do you think you could provide?? Any idea is a great one as long as it’s not negative or devisive.

I’m getting along to the Newcastle cafe nights fairly consistently now, plus I get out shopping from time to time en femme. I also shop for femme stuff openly in boy mode, but I’m not sure whether that helps or not.

For the past couple of years, I’ve also been active on wikipedia, helping to improve coverage of TG subjects and maintain neutrality in the face of some systematic attempts to bias articles against us. If anyone is interested, there is a LGBT project on wikipedia, which always welcomes new members. Even things like fixing vandalism, fixing typos, etc helps.

In spite of being very busy with my work, I will make time to help others.

I should go and find that sticker thread. I have a few ideas on that.

Alice

[Alice]

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Isn’t that all a trifle over dramatic. In my experience these sort of guys are shy and easily deterred. The larger danger are those that don’t approach you, that you are unaware of, and that are with their ‘mates’. Solo tranny chasers are easy to deal with.

This was my first experience with a tranny chaser.

I’m now well aware that several people who weren’t there when I was followed to my car are of the opinion that I over reacted and that I wasn’t in the slightest danger.

I have to disagree with their assessment, but I also think that the discussion will probably have to end now to avoid devolving as some threads here seem to do.

From my point of view, I regarded this person as a bit of a joke and a nuisance when he showed up and I was a little surprised when at least one of our group seemed to deliberately set out to antagonise him. It was only when he reappeared when I was completely alone on the street that my attitude changed.

Whether it was his intention or not, having someone wait for everyone else I was with to be out of sight before following me was very frightening and confronting. I am not heavily built and I have spent many years conscientiously avoiding building muscle in my upper body.

I’m fairly sure that some of the girls who have told me that I was in no danger and that my fear was irrational would be frightened when clearly followed by a strange man in a poorly lit back street at night.

Alice

[Alice]

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If transvestism and cross dressing are but degrees of of the spectrum that is transgenderism, with transsexualism being the ultimate state of being within that spectrum, does that mean that anyone who claims that they aren’t or could never be TS in denial of who they are and what they will most likely end up being?

No, because TS is not the ultimate state of being. It is simply the position at one end of the spectrum. Each individual has a place on that spectrum at any given time. Some people will move along the spectrum in one direction or the other and find a new position from time to time while others will remain at the one position for the whole of their life. There is no reason to assume that everybody will gravitate to being TS.

Alice

[Alice]

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The first is shaping my brows, changed the look so so much.

Absolutely. Bushy or full brows are hard to hide and shaping them can make an enormous difference. Even just trimming the hair short all over can make a big difference without looking unusual on a male.

I’m lucky in that I had pale brows to start with, so, over a few years, trimming, then shaping, then finally removing the entire outside half of my brows is not too obvious. I just look like a guy with pale, sparse eyebrows. With makeup, I just draw the outside half in a completely different place.

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The only issue is the first point isnt the best for male mode, I skate on the very thin line of leaving the thick enough so they are not embarrassing but the are defiantly noticeable as female.

It is possible to have a neat and tidy but reasonably full brow shape that looks fine as both male and female. A good beautician should be able to shape or wax them to that as long as you are up front and say that that’s what you’re aiming for.

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Learning how to shade and highlight would be the next best thing, really helps soften my male features.

Absolutely. I do quite a bit of contouring and highlighting and use makeup all the way down to the cleavage. The one feature that I don’t try to hide with contouring is the adams apple, which I’ve found is best left fully made up but with no shading as it can draw attention to it from some angles. The plain foundation will reduce its visibility a bit anyway.

Alice

[Alice]

I’ve got quite a few. These 3 sort of correspond to your 3 points.

1. Instead of covering the beard, I remove it using an epilator. Laser or electrolysis would obviously be more permanent and hence better, but epilation is the best compromise I’ve found for my circumstances. Removing the hair removes the beard shadow entirely, allowing me to use less foundation. I have enough trouble with enlarged pores without trying to deal with beard shadow as well!

2. Displaying cleavage. Breast forms are important, but pulling the loose skin of the breasts to the middle to create some cleavage, then wearing deep v-neck tops and dresses to show it off draws attention away from the face. I even wrote a wikipedia article about it! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleavage_enhancement

3. Making the hips wide enough and bum big enough to balance the shoulder width and breast size respectively. Maybe I just have an unusually small bum, because padded pants just didn’t do it for me. I had to make my own padding because I needed to add far more than the padded panties gave me. I wrote a wikipedia article about that, too! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hip_and_buttock_padding
My preference is that the top and bottom sizes should be the same dress size.

Alice

[Alice]

I can really empathise, Amanda.

No matter what type of work you do, sooner or later you’ll have to deal with people like that.

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Amanda
Perhaps its time for a “tranny help Line”….Just call 1800-TRANNY
LOL

No, it’d have to be 1900-TRANNY. The caller has to pay…

Alice

[Alice]

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Ebay is fine but nothing like being there holding the dress up and knowing its you.

Absolutely. Much better to try stuff on and see how it looks. Otherwise, I’d probably end up with stuff that doesn’t fit right.

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i have had the best times shopping, and the worst. I have chatted to sales assistants, spent half an hour making choices. Next shopping trip i have a meltdown and bolt. I shop as a man not a woman. One day soon i will shop as me, but how has everyone coped. I know everyone must have had to climb this little speedhump. Perth is a bit conservative. Shopping in Sydney was so much easier.

Shopping as female is far, far easier than shopping as male for female stuff, whether it’s makeup, clothing, shoes or whatever. From my experience, I can go pretty much wherever I want and try whatever I want without feeling self conscious or worrying about how others will respond.

In stark contrast, in male mode I am still occasionally spooked by the behaviour of others. I wouldn’t say that I panic and bolt but that I’m concerned enough that there could be an issue that I quietly leave.

For me, the closest to panic is when I’ve either struggled to leave the house or I’ve driven somewhere then not been able to leave the car.

Alice

[Alice]

When I go out in public, I go alone and it’s partly by choice.

I am self employed, I’m not out to many people but I do know that my male and female appearances are different enough that very few people can recognise me. Even a woman who did a bra fitting for me while en femme wasn’t sure if it was the same person when I went to the same shop a couple of weeks later in male mode.

Going out with my wife could cause problems due to people recognising her and working out who I am. Going out with my 4yo son could cause even bigger problems because he always calls me dad, even when I’m dressed. I’m still trying to train him to call me Alice when I’m dressed. I might have to work on getting him to call me Aunty Alice.

My experience with going out with other CDs is that two separately fairly passable girls are not passable when together. For that reason, I don’t go out shopping, etc with other girls. When I go out to cafe nights, I still make my best effort to be passable even though I know that the group situation means that I won’t pass.

If I was out with enough non-CDs to be able to go out with them (and be the only CD in a group), I’d love to do that!

Alice

[Alice]

I’m 179cm (5’11”) tall and presently around 76kg. I’d like to get down to 65kg (near the bottom of the healthy weight range for my height) and am just starting to make an effort to get there.

I’m lucky in having a fairly consistent size 10 shoe size, but still like to try them on whether I’m in male of femme mode.

I’m presently a 14/16, with the 16 size being only for shoulder width and sleeve length. I pad my hips and bum to size 14 to balance the top. Without the padding, I’d be 10/12 at the bottom.

When I’ve gone out in the daytime, I haven’t worn higher than 2″ heels, and haven’t worn anything but flats since I started getting out again in the past few months. In contrast, when I go out to the cafe nights here in Newcastle, I usually wear 4″ heels and the lowest I’ve worn is 3″.

Alice