[JaneS]

For me the question of whether it is ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ for me to cross dress has nothing at all to do with religion. For reasons far to numerous to go into here, and are not relevant to a transgender forum anyway, I abandoned Christianity years ago. In the beliefs that I use to guide my life there is no consideration of attire in determining if a person is ‘good’ or otherwise. It is not an issue.

I have a very close family member who is a very devout Christian – what I’d call a real one who genuinely follows her beliefs, yet she struggles with the incongruity of what her faith tells her is ‘evil’, an ‘abomination’ or is just plain ‘sin’ and the fact that she has a transgendered relative, a number of very close gay friends and she has met and very much enjoyed the company of other transgendered people besides me. It seems her belief in her god is a much greater challenge to her than it is to me.

Whereas, I don’t believe there is a god so any concern about my cross dressing is purely personal and social.

[JaneS]

Quote:

O front are for beginners

I must tell my wife that! 😉

I tend to be a ‘clip and twist’ girl but I can manage the chicken wing approach with some bras. Undoing them is invariably chicken wing, unless any particular hook is being uncooperative.

[JaneS]

As I have retired essentially life is a hobby now. I have time to do as much or as little as I want to.

I dress as I feel is appropriate. If I’m in the garden or working in the garage then similar ‘rules’ to Caty’s fishing scenario apply – the right rig for the job. If I’m relaxing then I can wear something nice and ‘girly’ (as an aside, can one be ‘girly’ at almost 60? Would ‘womanly’ be better? Surely not ‘matronly’…)

Tg issues have thus just become another hobby to be indulged rather than replaced earlier ones.

[JaneS]

Although I am no longer closeted in the strict sense of the word I don’t go out cross dressed here in Canberra. When we are away we attend functions, go on shopping outings or just do the tourist thing.

Here at home though, when I dress it usually just to make me feel better; more comfortable and relaxed. Thus I just do the normal things a person does around home. As I am retired that can be as much or as little as I want, as frequently as I want to. Some days I might do housework, or help with it, I might spend time on the computer, such as now, or we might just sit outside in the sun and have lunch and read. Relaxing as Jane is often all I need.

[JaneS]

Like many shoppers both my wife and I have a Wollies ‘Everyday Rewards Card’. As a result I often get emails to my other email account, the one in my male name, from Woolies or BigW. The latest is rather funny given who it was sent to:

Hi (my male name),
Look good and feel great with this exclusive womenswear offer.
BIG W’s wide range has the ladies covered.

The email then has a series of products illustrated and a list of product brand names like Bonds, Wonderbra, Emmerson and so on.
Sometimes automated emails can be a laugh. I must admit, though, I activated the offer – why miss out?

[JaneS]

Thankfully I no longer have to bite my tongue when it comes to some issues in conversation with my good lady. She did say once, though, that she now understands why some junk mail seemed to hang around longer than other items. I used to hang out for the latest BNT catalogue or the various women’s clothes sales brochures. I used them to get ideas on style and appearance.

Mind you, nowadays we both have to chomp on our tongues in some conversations with people who know not about Jane. Many a ‘look’ has passed between us at these times.

[JaneS]

Over the years there’s been plenty I’ve called favourites but a couple from many years ago really stand out:
The early Tammy movies, especially Tammy and the Doctor. I remember as an 8 year old watching this one Saturday matinee but never being game enough to tell my mates what movie I went to see.
The Franco Zeffirelli 1968 version of Romeo and Juliet.
The Tamarind Seed with Julie Andrews and Omar Sharif.

Lots of blokey-type movies too but those above stand out.

[JaneS]

Quote:

And Jane, I would have to disagree with you on the TgR chat room. I frequent it most nights and find the ladies there most welcoming. Sometimes the conversation can move rapidly and a comment/statement you have made can be overlooked. I have just come to realise that many are using smart phones to communicate and that can slow them down typing so the conversation moves on before they get a chance to answer.

I must be frank (Francine?) and admit that my efforts at TgR chat were some time ago. I suppose I just never really ventured back to it and stuck to what I was familiar with. Maybe time to give it another go.

[JaneS]

Quote:

Over the past few years I have joined a few chat sites and what I have found that Australian girls seem to be affraid to chat to other Australian girls this is our best tool to make first contact and realy make new friends .So ask your self why did I join and be honest to make friends support and the big one to have someone to chat with so hi and bye just does not cut it I dont want to upset anyone at all but the chat is the best way to use your feelings and connect with someone.
I hope to hear your feed back just dont be to harsh on me

Fear not, I save my harsh words for the people who put those silly little stickers on my fruit.

I am a member of two overseas-based chat rooms and often drop in for a chat. There are sometimes other Aussie girls in there too so we can chat about local issues as well. I have made a couple of forays into the TgR chat room with less than successful results. I experienced exactly what Sasha mentions, that if you don’t follow the flock and do as expected then cyber ignoring quickly results. It is so hard to join an established clique.

You are correct though Salley, a chat room is a good place to connect with others, even if it never results in a physical meeting.

[JaneS]

Quote:

I hope this illustrates why you can’t logically disprove a statement by disproving its converse… even though it is simple and often inviting to do.

I’ll save on the rest of my comments till some others than Chloe and Jane have a chance to reflect on what I see as a pretty confronting situation. But I’m hoping for more comments that address the observations ‘head-on’ rather than exploring illogical territory.

It seems that I too fit into a lower intellectual class for this discussion for I can’t see how all of my comments can be dismissed because some are considered illogical.

My initial comments were based on the observation “The lady I was talking with paused and then said with some conviction that to her, being a woman meant being sensitive to the needs and feelings of others” (my italics) and the subsequent invitation to “run for while with that definition of “being a woman” and see where it takes us.” I believed that I was therefore exploring the definition provided. The very fact that men can also be empathetic, as I demonstrated, was the reason I suggested that the sensitivity to the needs of others should not be a defining characteristic. That is where I ran to with the definition of being a woman, as invited.

My comments about men who have displayed sensitivity were intended simply to show that characteristics found in both men and women can hardly be credited with being defining in either, whether the ‘woman’ is of male birth sex or not.

As there was no response to my suggestion that a lack of public expressions of “sorry” does not necessarily mean there is a lack of empathy in the on line community, nor was there an answer to whether other terms of regret were searched, I have no idea how my comments were received. If they too were considered as lacking in logic then I am tempted to use the same logic displayed in the statement “I hope this illustrates why you can’t logically disprove a statement by disproving its converse… even though it is simple and often inviting to do”. Infrequent use of the term “sorry” might not point to a lot empathy in the online community but does that logically mean that little empathy exists? Failure to express regret openly doesn’t mean there is a lack of regret.

If my contributions to debates such as this are considered of no logical value then I’m happy to return to less challenging topics such as where to buy clip on earrings or larger-sized shoes. Those responses can be based purely on fact and thus not risk a venture into illogical territory.

I hope others who address the observations ‘head-on’ fare better.

[JaneS]

There are so many issues considered within the original post in this topic that I find that I am only able to respond to a couple that particularly strike me. I will perhaps consider Chloe’s well stated reply at a later time.

My view comes about, as it should, from personal observation and experience. I’m not so sure that I’d go so far as to say that “I feel like a woman inside” for as Chloe suggests we are who we are. I am the person I have developed to be, with all the positive and negative emotions within. As some have stated to, or about me, I’m a “part-timer”, a “wannabe” – a cross dresser who adopts feminine attire and appearance to enhance my own inner peace. I cross dress for myself and I have no illusions that I ‘pass’ as a female. Nevertheless I feel I can make something of a contribution to this discussion.

Quote:

The lady I was talking with paused and then said with some conviction that to her, being a woman meant being sensitive to the needs and feelings of others.

I find this an interesting comment but wonder if what she meant was that being sensitive to the needs and feelings of others is a desirable characteristic for ‘women’ rather than a defining one. I also wonder if she meant open displays of sensitivity. I too have met genetic women who display little empathy towards others. In some professional circumstances such displays can actually cause problems for the woman involved. It doesn’t mean though that that woman does not have said empathy towards others. Sometimes it is necessary for them to hide such feelings.

At the same time I have met and worked with many ‘men’ who (perhaps) don’t feel a need to don a dress and yet are most sensitive to the needs and feelings of others. Are they then ‘women’ without their knowledge? How often have we heard someone referred to as “a big girl”, usually offensively, because they display empathy? It doesn’t make them so no matter how ignorant others may be.

Quote:

Actually it turns out that the issue of gender differences in empathy is quite controversial. And as is frequently the case there are academic studies that point either way. I wonder if the confusing results arise in part from the researchers focussing on the physical sex of their subjects rather than their inner gender!

Very true. Perhaps we should strive to focus more on humanity rather than a gender/sex-based approach. Why do we need to allocate feelings either way?

Quote:

I observed that sometimes transgender people completely ignore the needs of others when meeting in a social context. After my thoughts were reinforced by some ‘complaints’ from partners I wrote a post titled “Did I tell you about ME”. In the article I commented on this apparent lack of empathy:

Quote:
Well imagine you sit down next to a total stranger in a restaurant and are looking forward to having a pleasant evening’s conversation. But instead all the stranger can talk about is themselves! They provide you with an unwanted and unsolicited description of their life, possibly their medical history, and even details of surgery. Worse still, at every attempt to change the subject to something of mutual interest they keep returning to their pet subject – “Me”.

I think it is unwise, and certainly unfair, to suggest that some transgender people lack empathy because of a need to talk about ‘me’. Especially for those who are closeted or who are unable to discuss their transgenderism with family or friends, meetings in a transgender environment can be the only time they have a chance to express their feelings, to seek assurances that they are not somehow ‘odd’ or that they are not doing anything ‘wrong’. Without sounding trite, to suggest that someone who needs such assurances is narcissistic actually shows a lack of empathy. Perhaps they are simply insecure. Many of us are/were. I also do not believe that their need to talk about themselves means that they are not sensitive to the needs of others.

Quote:

I was surprised to find that a search for the use of the word “sorry” in such a context yielded just 80 posts out of over 14,000. And of those, only 7 could be generously construed as expressing remorse about the effects of some prior posting. Of course it could be that no one hurts or offends anyone in our forums – but I know that is far from the case. And maybe it is only my generation who use the word “sorry” to express remorse. But such an infrequent use doesn’t point to a lot empathy in the online community.

As you mention, without the other aspects of human interaction like facial expressions and gestures it can be hard to gauge the true feelings behind an author’s post. I think we’ve all written something at some stage that was “taken the wrong way”. In my own case I know at times I’ve said something publically that has caused hurt or offence but I have dealt with that by way of personal messages. I considered further public comment had the potential to inflame rather than placate so a straight one-on-one was how I chose to resolve the issues. Personal responses also enable direct interaction without the often helpfully-intended input from others that can add to confusion. As for “sorry”, did you also search for “apologise”, “regret” and maybe even “recant”?

I’ll finish up with a final comment.

Quote:

If true femininity rests on being sensitive to needs and feelings of others, surely it would also manifest itself as putting the needs and feelings of others above one’s one.

I suggest that throughout history there have been myriad examples of people putting the needs and feelings of others above their own. Indeed, in the crucible of warfare it is the characteristic that oft attracts the most praise and recognition. I would hesitate to suggest that those so notably recognised are feminine in any way by virtue of their actions. A quote that comes to mind that I have always remembered (though sadly I can’t recall the source) is “I held his hand until he died. It was important that he felt not alone at that time. What more can someone do for a mate?” Based on the assertion that “true femininity rests on being sensitive to needs and feelings of others” it seems that femininity might thus exist even in the dirt, mud and blood-encrusted field of war.

I would rather consider that empathic beings are neither feminine nor masculine but rather ‘human’. If a person wants to talk about his/herself then that’s fine by me. If they are also willing to listen to me talk about myself then that too is fine by me. Maybe that is compromise.

[JaneS]

I bought a pack (pair) of clip on earing converters from Lincraft for $2.99. I also bought a couple of packs of different sized jewellery rings and with these I’ve been able to attach earings to the converters after removing the hooks.

They are listed as screw-on clips and are almost identical to the Lovisa product but without the small silver half ball on the clip itself and are adjustable. I also bought a pair of Lovisa clip-ons to try the same thing.

I’m going to experiment with making a couple of pairs of earings by ‘converting’ those meant for pierced ears.

Here’s hoping it works.

[JaneS]

Quote:

I saw the original ad a couple of days ago. It gave me a smile but also reminded me that I’m no longer in my youth when anything was possible. Thanks for the behind the scenes link I hadn’t seen that before.

The original video and the behind the scenes video go well together and both brought a big smile to my face.

As you say though Carol, it is a reminder that I’ve got quite a few years up on the young bloke in the video. On the plus side, I’ve got a bit more on the chest than he has so maybe the bra would work for me after all.

It’s good to have a light-hearted look at Tg issues now and then.

[JaneS]

I have often said that passing is a state of mind and for some girls that is very much the case. Many Tg girls have slight figures, soft features and are eminently more ‘feminine’ in general appearance than some genetic girls. For those with a frame like mine though the chances of passing as anything other than a male frame in female attire, albeit hopefully tasteful attire and nice makeup, are slim at best.

That said, I dress to please myself, to satisfy an inner need so the first person I need to pass with is myself. Thus, on those days when I seek to partially dress I steadfastly avoid mirrors for fear of ridiculing myself.

On those days when I have ventured further afield, and interacted with ‘the general public’ I’ve not yet had any problems so perhaps that’s a form of passing. I’d settle for acceptance; passing on a wide scale is probably unlikely for me.

[JaneS]

The age range 8-10 seems to be a fairly common age that many of us commenced our cross dressing. I think I was about eight or nine. It was about that age that I discovered the laundry basket in our bathroom. I had finally been granted permission to lock the bathroom door for privacy so I was able to try on my mother’s underwear. It was an amazing feeling because I felt that when I dressed in her clothes I was her equal, that she could no longer hurt or discipline me. I knew I’d be in a lot of trouble if I was ever caught out so I had to be very careful.

Some days, when I had time alone (always difficult when I had a younger sister) I was able to actually venture out of the bathroom. That was a huge thrill, a mixture of fear and elation.

By necessity of circumstance I had to curtail my cross dressing when I joined the army in my mid-teens but it was just a delay of a few years. Once I was living off base I was able to resume my need, albeit with few precious items I’d managed to buy “for my girlfriend…”

It is now an acknowledged part of who I am and I no longer have to hide. Now it is a matter of discretion, with consideration for others rather than being secretive. It’s a great feeling to have that control.