[JaneS]

Caroline wrote:

Sometimes you dont get the opportunity to choose a time to tell your partner!!…

Eventually I got busted in the worst possible way…

Whilst telling a partner or other family member can be difficult and it doesn’t always go well I do believe that confrontation is a much less successful method. That confrontation can be, as it was in Caroline’s case, discovery of items of clothing, it can be finding photos on a phone or computer or it can be that worst of all nightmares, being ‘caught’ crossdressed at home or out and about. I even know of some cross dressers who have allowed themselves to be caught out because they were unable to bring themselves to tell.

Along with all the fears and concerns expressed by those who were told these partners or family members also now have to deal with the fact that they were not told and had to discover the truth for themselves. I have a feeling that for them that is something much harder to come to an understanding of.

It’s another one of those situations where there really isn’t any ‘right’ answer.

[JaneS]

The ‘when’ to tell is as important to consider as the ‘how’ to tell. Whilst I acknowledge arguments for and against telling a prospective partner before things get ‘serious’ I think it is risky to set a blanket guideline. Actually getting to know the other person can be a big part in working out how and when to tell them.

In my own case I finally told my wife after 26 years of marriage, during which I’d had a couple of longer periods when I was able to refrain from cross dressing but about ten years before I told her the need resurfaced and I did so very much in secret.

As has been mentioned, I too felt I was living a lie but I also felt that I was being dishonest with my wife. As I later told her, it wasn’t so much the nature of the secret that I was keeping from her that did the damage as the fact that I was keeping one at all. As the need to cross dress began to consume more and more of my life the toxicity of keeping that secret from the most important person in my life began to tell. On two separate occasions I approached suicide, only to back out at the last moment, not because I was afraid but because I actually thought about the impact my death would have on those who would find my body.

Not going ahead with suicide though created its own problems because I felt an even bigger failure so I began drinking, increasing gradually in frequency and amount. I eventually became a totally obnoxious and unpleasant person to live with. Once I realised that my wife was not going to leave me I knew I had to come clean and tell her. I was prepared to lose it all if she rejected me because, in truth, I didn’t think I could feel any lower.

In order to tell her I chose a neutral location, a public park here in Canberra where there were no distractions but where we also had privacy. After some uncomfortable smalltalk, my wife being very much aware that I had something to say, I finally told her that I had been harbouring a secret since my childhood and then came out with it. “I am a cross dresser.” She was stunned for a few seconds and then essentially said “Is that it?” It turned out that she thought I was going to ask for a divorce, so the news that what had been causing my problems, and led to my abominable behaviour, was ‘only’ that I liked to wear women’s clothing was something of an anticlimax.

The road from there wasn’t totally smooth of course. It took her some time to get her head around it a bit more but especially after I’d told her how close I’d come to suicide she knew that how she reacted overall and how she handled the situation was very much like having my life in her hands.

She went through all the same emotions and feeling other wives have. She felt betrayed, mostly because she thought I’d felt that I couldn’t trust her. She felt confused and questioned my sexuality. She wanted to know if I wanted to “become a woman”. She also needed to know if I wanted a divorce after all. I answered every question honestly and told her whatever she wanted to know but no more. Together over the next couple of years we slowly worked together to become comfortable with Jane’s part in our lives, to the point now that we’ve no longer any fears and have told other family members, including our four children and relevant partners, and a number of trusted friends.

From all that though there is one small conversation that sticks in my mind. Early on after I told her, when it was all still quite raw, I told her that I probably should have told her before we married. She thought about it for a while and then told me that that might not have been a good idea because she was a very different person “26 years ago” and that had I told her then it’s very likely that she would not have married me. When I replied that given I was perhaps not the man she thought she’d married maybe that would have been for the best her response was unequivocal. “Honey, look at our four amazing children, their partners and our two beautiful grandkids, and the life we’ve had together overall and then tell me you really believe that.” She is a very wise woman. We’ve now been married over 33 years.

There is no right time to tell as far as a general rule goes. For some, before a relationship develops might be best. For others later in a relationship that has developed in love and harmony might be better. In the end, I believe only the cross dresser will know his/her circumstances and the other person involved. I would hate to advise telling someone early only for them to miss out on a relationship like I have but I am also aware that leaving it later might also provide the appropriate straw to break the camel’s back.

I’m just happy that it has worked out for me.

[JaneS]

Caty wrote:

… why does female clothing vary so much betweeen labels and sizing????

I made a similar comment to my Good Lady Wife, only to receive the compassionate reply “welcome to our world”.

Some time ago I read an interesting article in a so-called women’s magazine about clothing sizing. One interesting comment was that some of the problems are caused by image expectations. Some brands intentionally reduce the sizing on garments so that women so inclined can feel ‘slimmer’ in their range – “Oh I am a size 16 in X brand but in Y brand I am a size 14”. The same goes for style. Tighter clothing isn’t necessarily marked a smaller size than those designed for a looser fit.

One final comment in the article was that men’s clothing, especially pants and some shirts, is usually sized by measurements so we can look for those as the indicators we need. For women having actually centimetres or inches marked on clothing sizes is seen as discouraging.

In the long run, as my wife says, the only real way to know if it will fit is to try it on. Whether that is done in store before purchase or at home after purchase, well that’s an issue for the individual’s level of confidence.

[JaneS]

ClaireStafford wrote:

Nothing untoward happened, I got home safe. Boring but there it is.
So, anyone else wish to share?

“Safe” can never be boring and I am happy that was how your story ended, well, that chapter anyway.

My first ‘outing’ in full Jane-mode didn’t happen until I was 53! Prior to that the closest I’d come was to wear various levels of underwear/lingerie under my male attire. One example though could have proved dangerous and perhaps could have had wider ramifications if I’d been caught. I was in the Navy in the early 80s and in those days holding a high security clearance required one to have nothing in one’s personal life “that could be used for leaverage and/or intimidation”. I knew of a former workmate who had lost his clearance because he’d shared an apartment with two other sailors who were in a gay relationship, albeit supposedly in secret. He’d failed to report their relationship and so it was thus considered that he’d be a security risk because of that. In my case, had I been caught wearing any elements of female attire it would certainly have resulted in problems for me.

All this I was aware of so if I was in shore establishments I was particularly careful to keep everything I had then well hidden and locked away. When I went back to sea I purged, mainly because there was nowhere I could hide anything in the very limited locker space available at sea.

During one period spent ashore I visited Grace Bothers store in the city and, after much walking backwards and forwards trying to work uo the courage, I began looking through the racks of lingerie. I was approached by an older sales assistant who offered to help me so I fell into the “I’m looking for something for my girlfriend, she’s a big girl” routine. I had the usual fear that this lady knew who the items were really for but I was commited. We settled on a lovely powder blue bra and knickers combination and I accepted her offer to gift wrap them for me. I couldn’t wait to get back to my cabin to try them on.

It was heavenly putting them on and wearing them as I paced around the cabin but that didn’t feel enough. Then I did what can now only be described as reckless and silly. I put my uniform on over the bra and knickers and then went for a short walk through the accommodation block. I got a drink from a vending machine and walked back to my cabin feeling on top of the world. Moments after I got into the cabin I heard a group of shipmates returning from a ‘run ashore’, which meant that they were quite intoxicated. I’m not sure which shipmates they were but I can only imagine what would have happened had they seen me wandering the passageways in uniform with a significantly more ‘enhanced’ chest definition. At best I’d have been ridiculed, at worst I could have been assaulted for being ‘gay’. Just like Claire’s environment at the time, a man in female attire was always considered gay.

Thankfully I survived the experience but I never did anything so reckless again. Years later, when working in plain clothes, I began to wear knickers, pantyhose and sometimes a sports bra under my clothes but I always ensured that nothing was visible. Nowadays I wear what I like because my family now knows and I can’t be sacked from being retired. Life is certainly much easier.

[JaneS]

Donnagirl wrote:

Coming out to close family, particularly your wife is one of the hardest things and also one of the most personal things. Only you can know the strength of the relationship and only you are in a position to predict the reactions.

As you say Donna, coming out to one’s spouse is certainly one of the most personal things we can do. I would even suggest that no matter how strong the relationship sometimes we still have doubts about what the reaction will be. I think that can be a reason for some to not reveal all; a fear of a negative reaction despite how strong they feel the relationship is.

I know in my case it was that fear that kept me silent for longer than I should have been. It was only when I realised that I was spiralling into self destruction and taking our marriage with me that I decided that I couldn’t stay silent any longer. It was certainly the most difficult conversation we’ve ever had, both of us shedding quite a few tears. In the end though my wife realised that she essentially held my life in her hands and she wasn’t willing to give me up. Like you I also faced some of those basic questions and they were all answered honestly. Thankfully I realised a bit earlier that honest communication was also critical if we were both to move ahead.

It took my wife a while before she was ready to see Jane by way of photos and another six months before she was willing to meet in person. Each step took some adjustment for her though thankfully she was always able to keep in her mind that I was still the same person she married. Indeed, she was the first to suggest that my more feminine aspects were what ‘softened’ me, that made me the ‘nice’ person that she loved.

We are both pleased to have met your good lady and her openess and honesty comes through in the love and support she shows. There will always be things they worry over but I’ve come to believe that many of the worries are about how things will affect us. Their love and support also included being protective of us.

I’m able to dress at home any time I wish to though, similarly to your wish to not embarrass your kids, I need to be mindful of not causing difficulties for our daughter, who still lives in Canberra and particularly our grandson. Having a six year old talk about what his grandpa wears might not make ideal ‘news’ at school.

My wife has actually developed more confidence than I have and has told a number of her trusted friends. All have reacted positively and I trust her judgement implicitly.

As you say, the journey continues and I think that we are lucky to have them beside us. I am sure there are others still in the closet who would find the same.

[JaneS]

Donnagirl wrote:

It’s only my more closeted CD friends who have reacted badly. I think a combination of envy, jealousy and regret. For them I am sorry, but I could not remain hidden. It has cost me one very close friend that has hurt me badly, and by association I’m also counting as lost a number of common CD and TG friends in SA. That part really hurts…

Lost friends, in some ways, suggest that they were not really friends at all, merely common associates. I’ve had few negative reactions to my gradual exposure but by far the most negative and truly hurtful comments came from a person who is supposedly transitioning. I say “supposedly” because whilst proclaiming that ‘people like me’ are pretenders and not genuine because I don’t plan to transition or live full time as a woman, she has been transitioning for almost ten years and clings to a letter from a doctor that says she is in the process of transition even though she’s not had any form of surgery.

Don’t get me wrong, I have no problems with her position. I don’t care if someone never has surgery and simply chooses to live their life as a woman without it but I don’t believe that gives her some superior position and inherent right to belittle or sit in judgement of people like me.

Coming out to those close to us is rarely easy and as Donna says, attitudes can change quickly if the conditions and circumstances are right. If they are not then that’s when we risk losses we’re not really prepared for. For some of us though those losses are preferable to the self destruction we were engaged in before coming out.

The one person who means everything to me saw my self destruction happening, though she didn’t know why, until I finally told her. Although she was shocked and very confused she also knew that she held my life in her hands. Her progress towards acceptance and understanding took a little longer than Donna’s partner but it happened. Sometimes we have to take that chance.

[JaneS]

A chat room feature can be a wonderful way for people to make direct contact with others and on sites like this can even offer a lifeline to those who, for various reasons we all mostly understand, are isolated or unable to actually meet like-minded people. I know when I first entered the on-line trans* world I was a very active chatter and many of my fears, concerns or even just basic questions were addressed by people I met on-line whilst still deep in an emotional closet.

These days I have less need to seek solace in chat but I’ll never forget how much help it was for me so I’d hate to see it disappear and thus deprive others of that potential help.

Given what I see chat is useful for I think simplicity and ease of use is important. An ability to chat in general, in open conversation is a starting point, with an ability to switch to a private conversation should the need arise.

I am ‘old school’ by choice and use only a laptop or PC however I know many people these days use only a phone or tablet. It is thus a case of trying to find a ‘one solution fits all’ outcome. I think it’s worth trying for but, as has been stated, if it isn’t practically achieveable then so be it.The forums can still be of immense help.

[JaneS]

In http://forum.tgr.net.au/cms/forum/F163/6035-what-is-wrong-with-these-people#26192

Christina wrote:

I will have to get used to the reality that all my fears were mostly baseless. Where will it all lead?

Perhaps not totally baseless – there are still some people out there with quite narrow and distorted views – but certainly we don’t need to feel the level of fear we once did. For many now it is only the challenge of facing those closest to them that poses the greatest fear.

Moderator: split tpo new thread as it is not on-topic for the going out in public forum

[JaneS]

Hello Laura, and welcome.

Don’t worry too much about who you see in the mirror yet. It’s who you feel in your heart that matters.

The skills come with practice and encouragement. Even then, for some of us we just have to accept the canvas nature gave us to start with.

Take care.

[JaneS]

Once I got over that silly fear of shopping for femme stuff when in male mode I found it pretty easy and so far have not had any negative experiences.

My most recent foray, again in male mode, was to a new hairdresser, one neither my wife nor I had been into before. We went together and when we walked into the hairdressing salon I said to the lady at the counter, the manager as it turned out, “I’m transgendered so can you do anything to make this hair look in any way feminine?” She was quite happy, checked her book and said “Can you come back in an hour and a half?” We then said my wife would like to get hers done too so she said “We’ll put you in side-by-side.” Ninety minutes later we arrived and from then on we were treated with the utmost respect and courtesy. The manager did my hair and during the two hours there she asked a lot of respectful and valid questions, showed significant empathy and finished off with some great instruction on how to style my hair myself, including how to make it look “more boy-like, if you have a need to.” It was a wonderful experience and when I left I had the world’s biggest smile.

[JaneS]

To be frank, some of the comments are positively disturbing.

There remains the total unwillingness by some to even think outside their self-created squares. For most of them biological sex = gender, end of story. One comment even stated “there are only two genders, male or female…” thus showing even greater ignorance of the biological/anatomical existence of intersex. Those of us who don’t fit the “correct” binary concept are still described as “sick” or at least psychologically disturbed.

No wonder, after reading such disturbing commentary, do some people continue to fight with their own gender identity in secret.

‘We’ do indeed have a long way to go.

(Now please excuse me while I duck away to swear at the missus and kick the dog before I go discuss footy and sheilas over a few beers with other real men. I never was any good at that but apparently I just have to get over it and accept “reality”.)

[JaneS]

I heartily agree Jannine. I have met Amy; she was the first person to ever meet ‘Jane’ back when I was very deep in the closet. I found her to be warm, encouraging and she was able to help me overcome many of my early fears.

Her quiet, somewhat behind-the-scenes work took something of a setback when the whole ‘Bridget Clinch’ thing hit the news services a few years back but Amy kept working away and has achieved much. We corresponded frequently for a while but I mostly lost touch after she moved to Melbourne. I am happy to say that I’ve recently renewed that friendship, on line at least.

Let us hope that the work of all these wonderful people continues to help to break down even more barriers.

[JaneS]

In the year and a half since Andi posted her list two of the venues seem to have closed.

Can anyone offer some suggestion for a couple coming to Australia from the US? They are looking for trans* nightclubs or venues where they can have a good time and enjoy a night out as a transgender person and supportive partner.

They are looking to arrive in Sydney in early April. For some reason I can’t seem to convince them that Canberra is a hotbed or trans* fun and partying. Go figure.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[JaneS]

It’s been over 48 hours Caty so I hope all is well on the home front.

My greatest fear was always the thought of being caught out by one of our daughters. As I worked shift work I often had time at home on my own when the kids were at school and my wife was at work. That didn’t stop a couple of very close calls when someone came home early, for various reasons. I managed to survive.

Now that I’m ‘out’, courtesy of a deep, revealing discussion rather than accidental discovery, I no long have that fear. The only sense of being sprung now was one time a postie came to deliver a parcel – poor bloke didn’t know where to look, though he did seem to check out my toes a bit. I hope he liked the colour.

Best wishes with your good lady. Perhaps now there’ll be another aspect of her ‘other half’ that she can get to know and love.

[JaneS]

Quote:

God will judge me unworthy if I refuse to live out the miracle of this incarnation.

Now that is an approach I can certainly live with. Well said!